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I dont drive to Domino's....so ordinary....
My chauffeur drives the Bentley to Domino's ....
and on bad days, drives the AMG Gelandewagen
Cegarman
document code? If it's not intuitive, you're in the wrong field 
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I have a new laptop and I decided to go ahead and try the built-in email client that is installed on Win10. -- Aside: Notice that I don't even know the name of this app? Microsoft isn't very good at naming stuff.
Anyways, I connected to my email server and email arrived in my inbox but there was no way to scroll through them.
Oh..........isn't that quaint? The scrollbar appears when you hover over that area. That's a ingenious idea.
It's so I have more space. But I have plenty of space so I search and learn how to make Scrollbars always appear. that's a nice waste of time.
But, there is a bug too. If I now go to the scrollbar, the cursor always shows up as a I bar instead of an arrow as it should. Oy! I made a video of this and posted it to youtube so you can see it in action[^].
So here is my big question. When would any user want to have to hover over the scrollbar so it can appear (thus the user is sitting and waiting for the scrollbar to appear)?
Oh, you say, on pad type of devices the screens are smaller so this enables the user to see 2 more characters than they would otherwise be able to see and then they can hover and see the scrollbar.
Except pads usually don't offer a hover-type of functionality do they? Well maybe Surface does since you use a mouse with it. But for most there would be no cursor (since a finger is used as the pointer) and no hover ability so it just doesn't make sense to me.
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raddevus wrote: the cursor always shows up as a I bar instead of an arrow as it should.
I've sometimes noticed this in VS too. 
/ravi
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Ravi Bhavnani wrote: I've sometimes noticed this in VS too.
Thanks for letting me know you see that in other apps too. I'm always curious about this stuff.
I've actually had this outlook client on here for about 2 weeks now (updates, rebooted numerous times, etc.) and the cursor always shows up as an I-bar. It's so weird and annoying.
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Although I feel your pain, this isn't something that's new or something that's specific for this app.
Windows 10 has this in the start menu, it's in pretty much every Windows 10 setting screen and some other apps as well I think.
And I think Windows 8 had this as well.
Not to mention pretty much every app on your phone.
My point is, great that you've been able to avoid it for the past 10 years or so, but you better get used to it 
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Sander Rossel wrote: My point is, great that you've been able to avoid it for the past 10 years or so, but you better get used to it
Suppose they changed all the steering wheels in the all the cars to squares?
Would you reply that way too. 
Also, none of the other apps on win10 hide the scrollbar so it's weird I thought it kind of went away.
Sander Rossel wrote: Not to mention pretty much every app on your phone.
I don't know what kind of phone you use that has scrollbars?? You can just scroll all the content on most phones. Just touch and slide.
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raddevus wrote: Suppose they changed all the steering wheels in the all the cars to squares?
Would you reply that way too.
If they all did it ten years ago and it wouldn't be a huge hassle and I'd have gotten used to it by now and you'd now make a post complaining about it, then yes 
raddevus wrote: none of the other apps on win10 hide the scrollbar
I just found another app that does this real quick, GitHub Desktop.
Much more I think, but I don't know which ones from the top of my head.
And, as said, all settings forms.
raddevus wrote: I don't know what kind of phone you use that has scrollbars?? You can just scroll all the content on most phones. Just touch and slide.
My Android Galaxy S10 has them. They're really tiny and almost impossible to select, but they're there.
Sometimes you just need them for some serious scrolling.
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raddevus wrote: So here is my big question. When would any user want to have to hover over the scrollbar so it can appear (thus the user is sitting and waiting for the scrollbar to appear)?
Appear? Out of nowhere?
raddevus wrote: Except pads usually don't offer a hover-type of functionality do they?
"hover"?
Listen, Comctrls were not meant for hover and touch. And UI on PC should not be compared to some phoney thing.
Bastard Programmer from Hell 
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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It's very simple: some idiot at MS had an idea and everybody went "looks good!" without actually trying to use it.
Then, because MS is really, really bad at admitting a mistake and undoing it they push on with stupidity in the name of "UWP Progress" ... because "touch screens don't need scroll bars" since you scroll by "flicking" the screen directly.
BTW: there is no "hover" on Surface either.
You can undo (some of) it though: Open Settings, and go to "Ease of Access ... Display" and turn off "Automatically hide scroll bars in Windows". Some - but not all - of them will no longer hide themselves away. But this being Microsoft and one finger not talking to any of the others, some of them still ignore it.
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony
"Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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Sloshy windows?
I had a jar of expired jam like that once. Even found online a method of rectifying it's consistency ... but the outlay of funds to pay for the sugar and the pectin, on top of not actually believing that I would ultimately salvage the flavorful food substance by doing all that stirring and re-rendering under heat and then cooling again ... well, I did what Walt Fair does, on an apparently regular basis ...
two hours ago[^]
and "fluxed it".
I call it "syrup".
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Ah, good point. Apple had this problematic UI first didn't they?
That makes sense.
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Hmm ... I posted something about it in the Lounge way back in time  in October 2019 ... under a meaningful title "End of nightmare" and this line might help
" Windows - settings - ease of access - automatically hide scrollbars in Windows - OFF, ",
unless, of course, MSFT did remove this setting, who knows ...
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Thanks for posting and I have activated that. It's good at least that they do have that option now. But I still have an i-bar as a cursor over the scrollbar.
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Thanks for the 'ease of access' tip. Disappearing scroll bars were an endless source of annoyance!
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I checked right now ... this setting is still intact in 2020H2, what a relief
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This Windows 10 "feature" was really bugging me to the point of ..headdesk ( in words of HTCW ) ...
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I think it's a real pain but I somehow adapt to it, partly because as a developer there are always so many "shiny new things" that adapting goes with the territory.
However regarding these modern changes, where it really annoys me is for people like my 81 year old father who didn't realise that you could click on the top of a window and move it even if there was no bar at the top. It seems like for the past couple of years he has been moving windows by resizing them.
These changes make things a lot harder for the older, non-expert, users.
I get the impression that these sorts of UI changes are not really taking some of the less young users into account.
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
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I have no idea if that[^] will help you or not, but you can always try.
Hope this helps.
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Indeed this makes it very clear how to restore this situation. But they were very very diligent with introducing this windows feature, to everyones confusion ...
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Yeah, I have that feature applied. It's just odd that millions of people-hours have now been spent turning that option on so that they can see the scrollbars.
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I hate it, but I rarely use the scrollbar nowadays.
mouse scroll wheel or trackpad scrolling.
I'd rather be phishing!
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Maximilien wrote: I hate it, but I rarely use the scrollbar nowadays.
mouse scroll wheel or trackpad scrolling.
Now load a 100-page document. What's your quickest way to scroll down to the bottom?
With a viewable scrollbar, you can drag the little thumb thingy (I can never remember what it's called) and drag it to the bottom - and you're there. With your mouse wheel or trackpad, by now you're probably still on page 3.
Granted, if you have a device with a keyboard, nothing beats hitting Ctrl-End. But I know of no equivalent solution for phones or tablets or any other purely touch device. I'm betting there's one, but these devices have existed for well over a decade now, and I still don't know about it. Which says a lot about discoverability. If there's some obscure gesture...then that's my point. You can't even find these by accident.
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doesn't ctrl-down (or something like that) do that ?
I'd rather be phishing!
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First sentence of my last paragraph.
Read it in its entirety to put things into context.
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