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Thus you have the dialectic of contradiction to handle:
You don't want to give this place a "squatter's rights" attitude and you express that admirably in the idea that a new member could judge as well as an old timer.
On the other hand, you don't want the ability to create an account quickly just to enable being an anonymous a**hole totally easy.
For a member "with a history, longevity, &etc", you at least know who they are and can take whatever measures you deem appropriate.
But the contradiction exists: surreptitious creation of accounts for minor harassment vs being a welcoming place. How does the drive-by user differ morally from a spammer? One spammer apparently hit one of my posts, today, and it was purged before I could get there to mark it as spam.
Your choice of colors is a difficult gradient that will just have to pick where to succeed and where to fail. Almost a living thing.
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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You've nailed it.
The deciding factor, though, is the percentage of drive-bys that are by established members.
cheers
Chris Maunder
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You have a valid point. I have seen a few articles here where the author pontificates ad nauseum against things that are standard industry practices and then they wonder why there are so many down votes. I find it rather amusing. I was one of those down votes and I don't feel like wasting my time arguing. The industry has already done that for me with its widespread adoption of those "bad" practices. If they were really so bad they would be exceptions instead of rules.
"They have a consciousness, they have a life, they have a soul! Damn you! Let the rabbits wear glasses! Save our brothers! Can I get an amen?"
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I agree with you, but I think you should comment rather than vote if you're going to bother. Your point you just made to me might have had an impact in the comment section. All your downvote did, IMO is say "stick it, guy!" and if he's anything like me, he'd wonder what the hell he did?
For all I know my driveby downvotes were deserved, because my code crashed or something. Hell, I had one project i published here recently fail on *me* when I tried to run it in my commercial code in its first foray into "the wild" - and i got a one vote on that. I wonder if it failed for them too? I would have loved to know, because clearly my testing wasn't sufficient.
But see, that comment you gave me would have served the community, and the author, again in my opinion.
Just like the comment that my code didn't work not only would have made me fix it, but saved me time on the backend when i tried to use it in my own code.
If we're here to help each other and support each others endeavors I say we do it. You know?
A lot of times I just don't feel like it, so I get that. None of us are obligated. But then why vote? I don't mean that rhetorically. If there's an answer - like - what purpose does it serve, I'd listen. I'm open.
Real programmers use butterflies
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I have downloaded code from here that had a bug or two but I have never given any of those a one vote. I fixed the bug, reported it, and moved on. That's just me though.
I understand your point with the comments but I am certain they would have zero affect on the author and their views. Most of the arguments have already been raised and the replies were as expected.
"They have a consciousness, they have a life, they have a soul! Damn you! Let the rabbits wear glasses! Save our brothers! Can I get an amen?"
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Rick York wrote: Most of the arguments have already been raised and the replies were as expected.
Ah yes, well in that case, no sense beating a dead horse, because while you can lead a horse to water, you can't make him drink. But he shouldn't look a gift horse in the mouth.
Real programmers use butterflies
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Hmm. Several years ago when CP had an up/down voting system, I became disgusted with my own behavior. I resolved to never use the forum post voting scheme again, either up or down.
Since that time if I like or dislike a post and I feel strongly enough about it, I comment and say so.
Software Zen: delete this;
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I can appreciate that.
I feel kind of dirty using it as well, except when i give 5 stars for a great piece of work.
I always comment if i vote, even if just to tell someone i voted.
I don't give out one star votes. I may comment, and offer constructive criticism or advice, or ask a question if the article puts me off somehow, but I figure a vote doesn't tell them anything other than "someone didn't like it" which doesn't help anyone make anything better.
Real programmers use butterflies
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#realJSOP wrote: I'd like to think that if it was from an established user, they'd at least show some respect and let me know where I went wrong.
You'd be surprised.
I once got downvoted by an established user (back then about 150k rep if I remember correctly) and all I got was how much I sucked and that I should really find another career.
Even after I *politely* asked him how I could improve I got nothing but curses and how I'm an idiot.
He even had a CP protector or some such icon next to his name!
The user has since left the forum.
What an enormous jackass, good riddance I say!
It was another user that day who helped me improve and pointed me in the right direction.
I also remember that Spanish/South-American(?) media(?) guy who wrote dozens of articles (also lots of rep), but would almost come to your house and kill your family if you didn't 5-vote him.
I don't remember his name or what he did, although he said he was a business owner of some large media imperium I believe, but I mostly remember his dismal behavior.
After the umpteenth warning, he's been kicked of the forum, I think.
I won't even remind you of the soapbox where established users with lots of rep turned into poop slinging monkeys.
Even established/high rep users can be gigantic asshats 
It's almost as if they're human 
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Sander Rossel wrote: I won't even remind you of the soapbox where established users with lots of rep turned into poop slinging monkeys.
The soapbox was specifically for slinging...
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013
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I think I remember who you are describing. He was Mr. Infomercial and knew everything about media there was to know. Wasn't his name Sergio or something like that?
"They have a consciousness, they have a life, they have a soul! Damn you! Let the rabbits wear glasses! Save our brothers! Can I get an amen?"
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OMG. You made me look him up. Bill SerGio. So self-important he felt he needed to capitalize his name on every syllable.
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That's the one!
Almost 50K rep for writing articles, -2,658 rep in debator 
Seems he isn't banned after all.
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Bill is an enigma. One day I'm going to head down to his neck of the woods and have a beer with the man.
He's...odd...but we feel the world would be a far less interesting place without people like him.
cheers
Chris Maunder
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I've never had a problem with him, but I've seen others struggle with him.
It has reached the Lounge a few times, but that's years ago (I've been here for over 10 years already  ).
I don't doubt his knowledge on the subjects he writes about, but I guess he could do with a little less ego 
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"Originally filmed in 1996." I highly doubt that 
More like 69 (nice) 
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Sander Rossel wrote: I also remember that Spanish/South-American(?) media(?) guy who wrote dozens of articles (also lots of rep), but would almost come to your house and kill your family if you didn't 5-vote him.
I'm really sorry about that. Not cool.
cheers
Chris Maunder
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Chris Maunder wrote: I'm really sorry about that. Not cool.
No need for you to be sorry. All you need to have done (to be cool) is to hunt him down where he lives and "down-vote him with extreme prejudice"*.
* That paraphrase should be added to the new CP Blossary you're going to create
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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You're...scaring me.
cheers
Chris Maunder
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Somewhere in the comparatively recent "Bugs & Suggestions" I noted that any time I post an answer in Q&A it's hit with a -2. They even when back in history a bit.
I think we have a name for said drive-by personnel: The Ball-less Avenger .
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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I had a downvote troll for awhile, and CP staff took care of it after it became a consistent problem. I didn't bug them with it right away, because I don't like to bother them over petty things, but I don't like being trolled in principle, so after a month or two of it, I brought the issue to the attention of the staff, and they investigated and sorted it out quickly. I love this place. The staff are stellar, and for the most part so is the rest of the community.
Real programmers use butterflies
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Take this with a grain of salt, or maybe the whole shaker. I've not done an article nor have I voted on an article.
The only way that a downvote helps the community is with an explanation. I can read / write an article and not understand the nuances that could be associated with the topic. I need a constructive comment to make me a better writer/coder/employee/person/..., the list could go on. And if I'm just reading an article the comment will help with my understanding. I always read the comments, mostly for the questions and answers.
I'm good with having my account displayed for any vote I may make positive or negative. It's called accountability. I'm also ok with disabling my account if my downvotes (without constructive or any comments) exceeds a given level.
But I do have a question. Has the amount of downvoting gone down since the soapbox was removed? It is far to easy to hate on someone when they don't believe as you do. Regardless of what the belief is.
Jack of all trades, master of none, though often times better than master of one.
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Ron Nicholson wrote: Has the amount of downvoting gone down since the soapbox was removed? It is far to easy to hate on someone when they don't believe as you do.
Maybe somewhat, but I'm like you - accountability is important.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013
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That was my first thought too when this was brought up a long time ago, but I was told that people would get into tit-for-tat downvote wars when a comment was required for a one star vote. So that accountability attempt backfired in that it created more problems.
But as a concept, I like it. It's just that some people are why we can't have nice things. 
I didn't really participate in the soapbox, but I have wandered into soapbox territory elsewhere prompted or unintentional gibbering on my part, even recently, and as soon as I realize what I'm doing i disengage immediately because otherwise i won't stop myself.
So i wonder if maybe some of those messages might have led to downvotes. I don't really think so. I've been pretty agreeable for the most part here i think, even in my disagreements, but we all have our buttons, and if i pushed one, it wouldn't surprise me. I've been here long enough.
The short answer is, I don't know but in my case, I doubt it just because I wasn't one of the more politically vocal people here even when soapbox was around.
Real programmers use butterflies
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