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Hmm - good point. There were two reasons in my mind:
- Because adding a comment required extra bit of work compared to just upvoting
- Because adding a comment made the downvote non-anonymous
cheers
Chris Maunder
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I can see why some people wouldn't want their identity revealed when downvoting.
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You sound as if you new here 
Also, your comments, like mine, are sometimes harsh; we no OriginalGriff. And we not here to be, OriginalJSOP.
Bastard Programmer from Hell 
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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#realJSOP wrote: drive-by 1-voters
Yerwo?
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7 hours late, I'm afraid: The Lounge[^]
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony
"Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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Hehe, he just started the night shift for you 
modified 27-Mar-21 21:01pm.
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I am always late to the party. I don't start watching the lounge until like 9ish Chicago time. so I apologize for not being the loop more.
I will try to mend my wayward ways.
To err is human to really elephant it up you need a computer
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Perhaps someone should text you ?
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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oh please yes. Especially while I am driving. HAHAHAHA
To err is human to really elephant it up you need a computer
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As a cyclist, I rather like the idea.
Of course, I'm still in the market for a bicycle-mountable anti-tank weapon.
Software Zen: delete this;
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In the 1950s in America healthcare wasn't as much about the patients as it was about the providers. The doctors didn't listen to you so much as tell you what was wrong with you - that's just how the industry was run and how providers were trained.
It took decades of industry navel gazing to move to what they now call "patient centered care" where doctors are encouraged to listen and let the patients make the primary decisions, with doctor in a supporting role rather than simply an absolute authority acting unilaterally.
It seems like software and hardware developers could take a page from that.
Windows forcing updates on you. Samsung and Apple forcing you to have all these partner products on their devices that you don't want. Basically an entire industry treating you like "Daddy knows best" and basically unconcerned about the idea of losing customers because you've insulted their intelligence and undercut their autonomy in a single stroke.
And they'll continue to do it as long as we put up with it.
I'm a software and hardware developer, so I have some amount of control over what I create, and what I'm *willing* to build. I've made the choice to not be part of the problem in this respect. I have the luxury of that choice, I understand that some people don't. I'm not judging you if you're stuck working to pay the bills for a company that treats its customer's like dirt, but to the degree that *you are able* I think it's good to avoid contributing to the attitude that users should just shut up and accept what they are handed. If my software can autoupdate, you can turn it off, for example. I have some amount of respect for the users of my creations to know what's good for them.
And maybe people have just gotten dumber and/or more pliant. Maybe that has created a responsibility vacuum that has allowed producers to just screw people every which way, not just on price anymore but on how you go about your daily routine. How much power can we exercise over your daily lives? You're not a person anymore.
I am not a number.
I am not "a consumer"
I am a human being, with my *own* drives, desires, and agendas. What I do with your device or your software is *my business*, not yours. That's why I gave you money. Not just so you'd give me the goods, but so you'd go away. I pay you to leave at least as much as I pay you to show up with the goods.
Real programmers use butterflies
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Prophecy from the late 60's[^]
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony
"Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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That's precisely the scene I was thinking of when I wrote that.
Real programmers use butterflies
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to them, you and I are numbers. It does not matter what you or I think.
$$$$$
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It can. They still need your money. They still need my money.
Real programmers use butterflies
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Quote: They still need your money. They still need my money.
No, they don't. There are enough ignorant (or just plain dumb) people out there that will believe everything they are told and just pay the money regardless as they think there is no choice - and because of this, there is basically no choice.
You can choose, most people won't - so they don't care.
- I would love to change the world, but they won’t give me the source code.
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That's true. People are why we can't have nice things. 
Real programmers use butterflies
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They don't have to cater to the fringes.
Stupidity and ignorance reign.
How many times over the years I told family/friends/anyone about being spied on and how to reduce it (or even stop it) and they said that ultra-moronic mantra that "they have nothing to hide". Even when I ask them if they'd mind a whole lot if I opened their mail and read it (outrage!) they still just don't get it.
The lazy easy stupid path is the direction of choice. Why think? Someone else can do that for.
You are only a number. An income stream. Both of which, merely one of billions. To consider yourself expendable borders upon egocentric !
There's an old Pogo comic strip line that goes like this "We have met the enemy and he is us"[^]. The context, however, has expanded to engulf us.
| Ravings en masse^ |
|---|
| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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The reason health providers are now providing "patient centered care" is because pharma no longer target the providers they are now targeting the patient. Proof, every time I watch regular TV, which is very rare, 2/3rds of the commercials are drug related.
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honey the codewitch wrote: Windows forcing updates on you.
I remember a while back when people were trying to sue Microsoft for NOT keeping their systems automatically updated. They are a big target and just can't please everyone.
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Well, you are the product.
What you thought was the product is just a necessary tool to get more of you (as the product).
Updates in the mobile phone space are seldom about desirable features you want, but ingenious ways to make the product (you) more valuable.
Samsung has even gone so far that if you refuse an update the app stops working (Wear) and of the apps from the Galaxy Store work the same way, they get removed or made invisible if you don't update.
The only choice that is left to make is to turn off.
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Or root their hardware and install your own custom, crowdsourced firmware.
Like the outfit that does it for samsung TVs, and the innumerable projects for rooting phones.
Perhaps the contempt companies have for their users will at least foster that sort of hacking effort as they become ever more encroaching and impositional. Eventually, maybe it will get so bad that it will bleed over from the weirdos and hardware hackers into the mainstream.
After that it would inevitably be monetized. "Get Deft Root for your samsung phone - by DeNice, Inc for $29.95" And we'll see ourselves in the crossfire of the Great Bloat/Debloat wars of the 2050s.
Or not. 
Real programmers use butterflies
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I agree, but I am left with the question of whose definition of "user centered" we should use. One person's or culture's easy to use user interface may totally baffle another person or someone from another culture. Simple things such as date order or 12-hour versus 24-hour time, for example. Using localization can help, but setting that up for each user is a pain and expecting the naïve user to do this is an exercise in wishful thinking.
Ordering of fields is another whole can of worms. Assuming left-to-right, then down "logical" order is problematic. Whose version of "logical order" should we use? What about people whose language reads right-to-left, then down or top-to-bottom, then right? Your answer, I will bet, is to allow the user to move fields around.
Now for the zinger....In an industrial setting, a generic user id is often used with invoice numbers or order numbers used to distinguish who is entering the data.
In my experience, user interfaces for job settings need to be the least objectionable and most convenient to the majority culture using the software. The outputs need to be tailored to meet the needs of the next program in the job flow, with the appropriate reporting forms being generated as prescribed by the bureaucratic chimpanzees from the government and from "Harvard MBA" chimpanzees belonging to, or consulting to, other departments within the organization.
Being retired has some real advantages. I take on the projects I want, do it my way and if they accept my demonstration, get paid when I deliver the software installation package, help files and manual.
__________________
Lord, grant me the serenity to accept that there are some things I just can’t keep up with, the determination to keep up with the things I must keep up with, and the wisdom to find a good RSS feed from someone who keeps up with what I’d like to, but just don’t have the damn bandwidth to handle right now.
© 2009, Rex Hammock
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Well said.
I do agree that you appeal to the majority of users who use your product. If a significant plurality of them have an issue with say, left-to-right or top-to-bottom-order - maybe they use an eastern language for example - then you respond by releasing a variant of the application. What constitutes a significant plurality? In practice I'd think the market would dictate that.
Real programmers use butterflies
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