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Yup, the ancients couldn't study the planet from space and didn't know about tectonic plates.
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The theory of tectonic plates wasn't accepted until the 1960s. And even though he couldn't look at the Earth from space, Eratosthenes accurately calculated its circumference.
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Only by mistake:
Quote: It is remarkable that such accuracy was obtained in view of the fact that most of the "known"
facts and his observations were incorrect: (1) although it is true that the sun at noon is directly
overhead at the Tropic of Cancer on the day of the summer solstice, it was erroneously
concluded that Syene lay on the line. Actually, Syene is 37 miles to the north; (2) the true
distance between Alexandria and Syene is 453 miles and not 500; (3) Syene lies 3° 30' east of the
meridian of Alexandria; (4) the difference of latitude between Alexandria and Syene is 7° 5'
rather than 7° 12' as Eratosthenes had concluded.
From "Geodesy for the Layman"[^] pag. 6.
Some pople have genius even when they make mistakes.
Mircea
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Greg Utas wrote: The theory of tectonic plates wasn't accepted until the 1960s.
That is a deceptive generality based on the most narrow possible definition of "accepted."
«One day it will have to be officially admitted that what we have christened reality is an even greater illusion than the world of dreams.» Salvador Dali
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Since I don't think politics could play a role, I will cite this[^]. The theory had been around for quite some time, certainly if you include its precursor of continental drift, but a theory usually doesn't gain acceptance until backed by some evidence.
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W∴ Balboos, GHB wrote: far-western Asia
You mean far Eastern Europe?
If you can't laugh at yourself - ask me and I will do it for you.
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Obviously, Europe and Asia are a single continent, Eurasia.
That makes 7 continents: Africa, N. America, S. America, Antarctica, Australia, Eurasia and, the most important of all, Great Britain.
Also, obviously, until the Suez Canal was built, Africa and Eurasia were just one continent. Similarly, until the Panama Canal was built there was just one American continent.
There was originally only six continents: Great Britain, Antarctica, Australia, New Zealand, America and The Rest. Whether Britain and Ireland count as two separate continents is still disputed (by the Irish, mostly).
- I would love to change the world, but they won’t give me the source code.
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I'd always assumed that the definition of a continent was based on geology, rather than geography. The "current" idea of where the Asia/Europe border exists seems very fluid; countries that in my youth were firmly considered to be in Asia are apparently now "European", including even Russia. When the Eurovision Song Contest accepted Israel as a contestant I was vaguely uncomfortable with it; when Australia was welcomed in, I realised the thing was a con. (Europe, not the ESC).
My assumption was that the Urals formed (as many mountain ranges do) a border between land masses / tectonic plates. That seemed to make sense, although didn't explain why the concept of Asia and Europe being separate continents dated back hundreds of years. Yet they're not, despite the Urals appearing perhaps to be a result of tectonic collision. So I have to agree that the distinction is purely for cultural / religious / political purposes. Further if continents were really to be based on tectonics, then the Caribbean would be a continent, as would the Philippines and, perhaps surprisingly, the Falkland islands. And the Pacific itself would be a continent.
On the other hand, I can't agree to the concept of "far-western Asia". Given that the world is centred (obviously) around London, Asia only extends a few hundred miles into the Western hemisphere but 8000-odd miles to the Eastern. At -1º longitude I obviously live in western Asia, but I'm not sure I could call it far western 
The other "proof" that Europe isn't really a continent is that, unlike the true continents, it's name does not start and end with an "A". Definitive proof, eh?
Yet another reason for the EU to call it quits, though... 
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Drain the Oceans[^]
Bastard Programmer from Hell 
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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Could be worse... could be Belgium.
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All joking aside; the hospital I visit is near the border, and half the nurses are Belgian. And they more friendly than the Dutch.
Bastard Programmer from Hell
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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W∴ Balboos, GHB wrote: The basic reason that is probably the only "justification" is that the early map-makers (per current usages) were Europeans and thus, in their usual arrogance, needed to give themselves a special spot.
Ehr..
We do have one. Running economics. There's no US without Europe, and that's being kind.
Bastard Programmer from Hell
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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Eddy Vluggen wrote: There's no US without Europ
Let me clarify your slight error.
It is without the US you'd either have that (your) part of the world as part of the Third Reich or Satellites states of the Soviet Union.
Now, get back to stroking that inferiority complex . . .
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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W∴ Balboos, GHB wrote: It is without the US you'd either have that (your) part of the world as part of the Third Reich or Satellites states of the Soviet Union.
Look up why we got the Marshall aid after WW2.
Bastard Programmer from Hell
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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Eddy Vluggen wrote: Look up why we got the Marshall aid after WW2
Is this the part (wikipedia) that upsets you about the Marshal Plan?
Quote: The Netherlands received US aid for economic recovery in the Netherlands Indies. However, in January 1949, the American government suspended this aid in response to the Dutch efforts to restore colonial rule in Indonesia during the Indonesian National Revolution, and it implicitly threatened to suspend Marshall aid to the Netherlands if the Dutch government continued to oppose the independence of Indonesia.[81]
Damn anti-imperialists !
Without US, you'd have been swallowed by Soviet Troops. Except for the UK, what part of Europe was even left? What the US got out of WW II: gold-star families.
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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W∴ Balboos, GHB wrote: Is this the part (wikipedia) that upsets you about the Marshal Plan?
Not upset. You depend on us, and without, the "US" would not have been. They'd lost to the Soviet Union.
W∴ Balboos, GHB wrote: Without US, you'd have been swallowed by Soviet Troops
We wouldn't, stop pretending you are our "saviours".
Try history, or bloody basic economics.
Where all movies show you as our liberators, you didn't want to get involved in WW2, tried to be neutral.
And now, we paying NATO for an enemy that doesn't exist.
The problem is American warfare. Never declared war, but not a year goes by that they not in a war.
I love 'muricans. Explained me NY pizza and Texan BBQ. There's no folk that gives more. But your military is an abomination, and part of the Drake-equation. And the world resists. If you confused about why, learn basic psychology.
Bastard Programmer from Hell
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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In no particular order:
Eddy Vluggen wrote: And now, we paying NATO for an enemy that doesn't exist.
First, of course, those living in the Ukrain would tent to differ. Those in Georgia, too. As a start. Meanwhile, if anyone profited from NATO it's you. US troops stationed in Europe allowed you to have smaller armies (saves money) and put those people to productive work (make money). For the majority of you, you've been living off the welfare of my taxes all your lives. Just in case you haven't noticed: perestroika and glasnost are dead.Eddy Vluggen wrote: Where all movies show you as our liberators, you didn't want to get involved in WW2, tried to be neutral.
Absolutely - you had those ![Elephant | [mastadon]](https://codeproject.global.ssl.fastly.net/script/Forums/Images/elephant.gif) ing Nazi on the run! Of course - that's what your current movies show, right?
Eddy Vluggen wrote: The problem is American warfare. Never declared war, but not a year goes by that they not in a war.
and add to that your quote, worth a repeat at this juncture, Eddy Vluggen wrote: Where all movies show you as our liberators, you didn't want to get involved in WW2, tried to be neutral.
Apparently your viewpoint on the thing changes as is convenient. This is implicitly addressed below (vide post).
One thing about that which I hope cames to and an end: ing Europe sees a hot-spot and wants to know what us "Muricans" will do about it. Send your own children out to return in body bags. It's time you all grow up and take care of things yourself as energetically as you attack the huge "Murican" companies whenever your failed EU needs a few extra billion.
Really, not living in the UK, I saw BREXIT as a spectator sport. Now, however, seeing how you handle your own affairs - like getting COVID vaccines authorized - and those who wanted BREXIT are totally vindicated. You just love pronouncements and meetings and get-togethers. Sometimes, however, you need to do something that costs you . . . that lives up to the lofty perch you put yourselves on as leaders of pluralistic compassion and, well, we always see the same thing: Money Talks. Like Nord Stream. Scream about and condemn Putin's behavior, so long as doing something about it doesn't cost money. Rinse. Lather. Repeat.
So, next time a crisis exists, marshal a vast "Army of the EU" and set things right with your forces of enlightened goodness. (which, by the way, is expensive - so I guess that won't be happening). Stop looking to us to spend, as they say, "Blood and Treasure" whilst you sit on the sidelines and cheer us on - and later on, those like yourself will then find reason to condemn.
Actually - let me some this all up from a person living in a country that, in my opinion, has a lot of repair work ahead of it by giving you some advice: Don't tell anyone else how to sh*t until you learn to wipe your own ass.
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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Those the arguments we been taught in school; and you always have an array of arguments, and I welcome the time you spent in writing them down.
Still; this is CodeProject, not a history site and I don't want to repeat the same mistakes. If you'd like, and ehr, be'd willing, we could continue on private mail.
Your account allows for direct mails, mine not; so, I'd have to open before you get mail email-address. So, unless you post here "don't", I'll send my arguments in a few days. A few days are needed, because I sounded accusatory and (unrelated) need to update my resume. But not continuing this here.
Also would be open-minded, I might learn from another view. Can't learn anything if I just blindly repeat my own nonsense. You game?
Bastard Programmer from Hell
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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No particular reason not to keep this as lounge leisure.
In my quite a few years foraging on this planet I've been on the left and on the right. What I've learned is there's some wisdom to consume on both sides - but always there's the dress of pure Bullshit. The fringe seems to always have an excessive voice and maybe because they're willing, as fringe-dwellers, to put in that extra effort. One example, on the left (for your benefit) was when several of my (primary) friends joined "YSA" (Young Socialist Alliance). It turned them into little capitalists as the main topic of conversations was how many "subs" they sold. Subscriptions to their "party organ". From the inside they couldn't see it - funds were needed - ah, yes - always an excuse.
So - I find myself a left-wing conservative (or is that right-wing liberal?). Oddly, however, instead of getting along with more I find myself getting along with fewer.
So - your posts, as a whole, remind me of the teachings (at least) of the left-wing era, those who always found fault with everything done by "Amerika". If you look for something wrong with pretty much anything done by anyone you will find it. Surely the presentation of WW II, for example, was not how John Wayne depicted it - but Europe was defeated with the exception of the UK, which was going down the tubes. Japan attacked; US declared war on them; Germany, by treaty, was then obligated to declare war on the US. As I understand it, there was no joy in the Fatherland when that occurred (large population, huge resources out of bombing range, natural resource, huge industrial base, etc.). To the Germans, this was a bad move (something treaties love).
Look how the right (getting very recent) lied through their teeth to get us (and others) into Iraq. My argument, whilst the UN was looking for WMD was for US/UK intelligence to give them a site since they know they're there. Amongst the arguments was they were unwilling to compromise their agents. I knew then and there, before the first shot was fired, that they were lying. Result? Iran, their mortal enemy, was delighted and I figured we'd end up with Iran I and Iran II as a result. I never dreamed of ISIS.
As I've mentioned at other times, I make it my business to watch European news (DW, France24, BBC, etc.). One thing I noticed is their lying by omission (like everyone else) about the Middle East. It seems leaving out the negatives in the "palestinian narrative) and pretty much anything positive about Israel is a give (DW isn't as bad as most). Even the most recent, slipped in to tarnish their vaccination success, included the misleading information about "not giving palestinains" vaccinations or medical equipment and the usual apartheid claim. What's omitted is that the PA refused shipments of medical equipment (from UAE, I believe) because they came to Israel's airports without their permission, and as for vaccines? They wouldn't accept anything from Israel. Also, the terms of their (limited) autonomy is that they're in charge of their own health care system. You can be sure that the top officials all have everything they need. Meanwhile, by being unwilling to negotiate with Israel (making demands is not negotiating) and discovering that the longer they drag it out the better their traction with the EU, and elsewhere. The value of moving the US embassy to Jerusalem? Not that it was obey US Law and recognition of their capital but that it showed the PA that by doing nothing there will, at long last, be a price to pay. They had their chance (look it up) for almost 100% of their demands and rejected it. Even the EU governments are starting to notice they teach hate to maintain the horrid status quo - a great income for those at the top. And yes - I'm not impartial. I worked on a Kibbutz (a rather poor one) and you talk to people. Everyone would love to live in peace - they have better things to do with their time, money, and the lives of their children then live in a state of war. Look at their tech !
The point, though, is you are lied to as much by those you trust for information as those you dispose. It just a matter of personal taste.
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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W∴ Balboos, GHB wrote: No particular reason not to keep this as lounge leisure.
Wrote two long explanations; and had to agree more than disagree.
..but; "Recipient address rejected: User unknown in local recipient table"
Seems to want to reply to a nonexisting CP address.
Hmz; I could post my private email address and delete the post immediatly? That way you'd get a copy, without it being very long visible in the forums.
And half of the arguments are cultural and schooling. And part of it is Europe not being honest. So.. nothing new there.
Bastard Programmer from Hell
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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I have occasional email contacts - initiated via the link on posts here in the lounge. I presume all such links work. Posting in the lounge helps me keep the tone down.
The answer to all things can be found below, in the tagline area: "Ravings en masse" link. Some of it will be of dubious interest to you. Other text may initiate profound life-changing events.
I'll preview the last entry for you:
Quote: Byword of the wealthy: "You can never have too much of more than you'll ever need." - December 8 2020 11:53 PM
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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W∴ Balboos, GHB wrote: initiated via the link on posts here in the lounge.
I replied over email since it seemed to allow that and seemed to work. Will be copying those replies later this day.
W∴ Balboos, GHB wrote: Some of it will be of dubious interest to you
All of them of interest. I need not agree, but all of them provide knowledge. And in the case I disagree, you provide arguments on why I should.
I'll put both responses into one. Will be a long read, but you had a lot to say. Respond at your leisure.
Bastard Programmer from Hell 
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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W∴ Balboos, GHB wrote: I have occasional email contacts - initiated via the link on posts here in the lounge. I presume all such links work
Not "reply" from CP.
W∴ Balboos, GHB wrote: Posting in the lounge helps me keep the tone down.
I often react out of emotion, while looking for logic. But I'd not want you to tone down in private mails, just want your unredacted opinion.
And yes, cursing allowed if you need it.
Bastard Programmer from Hell
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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In the age of the internet, "unredacted" is a dangerous path! When I am running for US President or head of EU, or Grand Emperor Lux Terra, I don't want anything being whipped out to f* me!
Non-Partisan Rant:
One thing it seems is that despite all the oh-so-humanitarian pronouncements, Asia, west of the Urals, hasn't really learned a thing from the World Wars. Meanwhile, the US is heading back towards polarization that will, if "they" gain enough power, follow the McCarthy Hearings era and those days when the KKK marched proudly in the streets of Washington DC. Russia? They've already headed well back towards the Soviet era. China's taking advantage of capitalist greed by out-capitalisting them. Socialism? Capitalism? Full circle from one to the other. Just make sure you're not at the bottom of the pile. Our natural instinct for survival, expressed as greed, wins every time.
Some "They" have not learned from history because, for those in the right positions, repeating it is very lucrative.
not an endorsement: next to 'reply', below, is 'email'
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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W∴ Balboos, GHB wrote: Socialism? Capitalism? Full circle from one to the other.
Plato didn't have those names, and discouraged either.
One of the regulatory forms he didn't offer, how about humanitarism?
W∴ Balboos, GHB wrote: not an endorsement: next to 'reply', below, is 'email'
I did, a compilation of our last two emails. I wanted your opinion.
If that fails, I post my email and delete it; you should get a copy.
Bastard Programmer from Hell
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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