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CodeWraith5-Dec-20 23:29

5-Dec-20 23:29

Makes a lot of sense if you have a lot of money counting to do.

I have lived with several Zen masters - all of them were cats.

His last invention was an evil Lasagna. It didn't kill anyone, and it actually tasted pretty good.

Richard MacCutchan6-Dec-20 1:25

Richard MacCutchan

6-Dec-20 1:25

We produced bills for all of the petrol stations, and agencies, across the UK, who sold Shell or BP products.

dandy726-Dec-20 3:24

dandy72

6-Dec-20 3:24

CodeWraith wrote:
A programmer braindamaged by years of programming Intel processors

For decades, Intel is where the money was. It arguably still is. Few developers take their religion so seriously as to take a vow of poverty.

A writer who can't leave his religious beliefs like that at the door will fail to sell me a book.

CodeWraith6-Dec-20 3:54

6-Dec-20 3:54

Looking at the long list of target processors off his cross assembler, he may not be so religious at all. Or extremely polytheistic.

Me? I'm not a fanboi at all, except perhaps for my old processor. Even after 40 years I'm not quite done with it yet, but that's not at all a question of poverty or money.

So, how about you? You sound a little offended yourself.

I have lived with several Zen masters - all of them were cats.

His last invention was an evil Lasagna. It didn't kill anyone, and it actually tasted pretty good.

dandy727-Dec-20 9:24

dandy72

7-Dec-20 9:24

Well TBH I haven't had a need for assembler in a few decades. But if you have to ask, yes, I still took offense at the "brain-damaged developer" comment. That was gratuitous and uncalled for.

den2k886-Dec-20 5:53

den2k88

6-Dec-20 5:53

Come on, PUNPCKLWD is a sensible operation, and very easy to understand.

GCS d--(d+) s-/++ a C++++ U+++ P- L+@ E-- W++ N+ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t+ 5? X R+++ tv-- b+(+++) DI+++ D++ G e++ h--- r+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X

Ain't it the truth

Mike Hankey5-Dec-20 8:19

Mike Hankey

5-Dec-20 8:19

This is the first year I haven't run the Boston marathon because of Covid...I usually don't do it because I'm fat and can't run.

I'm not sure how many cookies it makes to be happy, but so far it's not 27.

JaxCoder.com

OriginalGriff5-Dec-20 9:46

OriginalGriff

5-Dec-20 9:46

This was the first year in ages I haven't thought about running the London Marathon - Covid killed that as well.

Normally I think "Run the London Marathon? Are you mad? I don't even run for busses."

"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony
"Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!

Slacker0075-Dec-20 9:55

Slacker007

5-Dec-20 9:55

Mike Hankey wrote:
because I'm fat and can't run.

I keep trying to tell the wife this every time she asks me to run to the grocery store for eggs and milk.

W∴ Balboos, GHB6-Dec-20 1:11

W∴ Balboos, GHB

6-Dec-20 1:11

If neither of you go doesn't this problem eventually correct itself ?

Ravings en masse^
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010

User 110609795-Dec-20 12:33

User 11060979

5-Dec-20 12:33

It does not solve my Problem, but it answers my question
Chemists have exactly one rule: there are only exceptions

modified 19-Jan-21 21:04pm.

Aging in tech?

honey the codewitch5-Dec-20 4:08

5-Dec-20 4:08

Programming tiny connectable gadgets - "Internet of Things or IoT gadgets" is an absolute joy.

No frameworks to muddy the water - with 520kB of RAM you can't afford them, no abstractions to complicate the process, just you and the bare metal.

Building them is fun too.

But part of me wonders if it isn't because I'm getting old, and learning all these technologies feels more and more like a waste of what time I have left. I mean, I love to learn, and I love to be challenged but it has to be on my terms. In some ways, that has kept me from moving forward - designing the backend of a website these days? Get someone else - I'd be using 10 year old designs.

I like these little things in a way because they're a throwback to when I learned to code. Part of me feels like I get a mulligan only I get to go back with what I know now. =)

But still, the parser generators and other projects have also been newer technology avoidant outside this one particular arena. A lot of it was developed using theories that were emergent in the 1990s in computer science, so it's not a huge deal these days.

I'm also struggling to wrap my head around the way people are going about machine learning. It's entirely different than how I would have and how I used to build learning systems, however unsophisticated they may have been compared to today's tech.

Anyone else ever feel that way?

Real programmers use butterflies

modified 5-Dec-20 10:32am.

Daniel Pfeffer5-Dec-20 5:18

Daniel Pfeffer

5-Dec-20 5:18

honey the codewitch wrote:
if it isn't because I'm getting old

Join the club. None of us is getting younger, and from what I can see, most of the active CP members aren't kids.

honey the codewitch wrote:
learning all these technologies feels more and more like a waste of what time I have left.

Once you've learnt to use a few of these frameworks, you realise that they all claim to do the same thing - using the philosophy du jour. Don't get me wrong - some of these ideas are interesting, but if one has to get work out of the door, one sticks to a basic set of tools and uses them.

I especially abhor the rats nest that has developed in web programming, where using one package drags in stuff from 1,001 other packages, leading to an unmaintainable mess.

Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.
-- 6079 Smith W.

W∴ Balboos, GHB6-Dec-20 1:28

W∴ Balboos, GHB

6-Dec-20 1:28

Daniel Pfeffer wrote:
from what I can see, most of the active CP members aren't kids.

A shadenfreude moment is coming.

After all, who'll take care of Q&A posts as the future keeps replacing the past?

I won't keep you guessing because you know what I was going to type: the current Q&A posters will share the depth and breadth of their knowledge.

In fact - I'm going to make a separate post of that and then put the link right over here![^

You have been an inspiration!

Ravings en masse^
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010

Roger Wright5-Dec-20 5:21

Roger Wright

5-Dec-20 5:21

Nope, I just feel lost. I learned programming as an adjunct to engineering, back when my devices had only 512 bytes of memory, but did nothing without programming them. Looking at timing diagrams for TTL parts and matching them to cycle times for various opcodes to make everything work perfectly in sync was fun. I went through an awful lot of quad-ruled desk pads doing it, but it was fun. When things got to a higher level, the feeling of control was lost, and along with it, most of the fun. Windows was the end of fun programming for me; it took more time to get the GUI right than the actual function of the application, and I'm not interested in being a commercial artist. The IoT world is renewing my interest, but I've got an awful lot of catching up to do... Sigh | :sigh:

Will Rogers never met me.

honey the codewitch5-Dec-20 5:25

5-Dec-20 5:25

I can relate to some of this. I felt lost in IoT less than a month ago, but apparently I'm catching on quick, according to my client I'm great at it. My takeaway is it doesn't take a lot to learn if you already have experience coding on embedded or old 8-bit systems and such. For me a lot was like riding a bike. Go for it!

Real programmers use butterflies

Mircea Neacsu5-Dec-20 5:32

Mircea Neacsu

5-Dec-20 5:32

Quote:
But part of me wonders if it isn't because I'm getting old, and learning all these technologies feels more and more like a waste of what time I have left.

If you are wondering you probably are Big Grin | :-D

.

This is one of my pet peeves: apart from whatever is taught in CS curriculum, we should have been taught to manage our careers like professional athletes. No professional tennis player expects to play in his forties. They move to coaching or live from whatever have accumulated. Same applies to programmers and specially to 10x ones: by the time you are 40 you start becoming a 5x, 3x,.. 0.1x Smile | :)

You still can do useful things and be gainfully employed but the fun is over.

Just my 0.02$

Mircea

honey the codewitch5-Dec-20 5:53

5-Dec-20 5:53

Mircea Neacsu wrote:
we should have been taught to manage our careers like professional athletes

If only we got paid like professional athletes. Laugh | :laugh:

Real programmers use butterflies

MKJCP7-Dec-20 2:04

MKJCP

7-Dec-20 2:04

Not sure I was ever 10x but I am feeling the pain too. To some degree, it is a young mans game. Unsure | :~

harvyk07-Dec-20 10:15

harvyk0

7-Dec-20 10:15

Mircea Neacsu wrote:
Same applies to programmers and specially to 10x ones: by the time you are 40 you start becoming a 5x, 3x,.. 0.1x

Speak for yourself. It's attitude, not age that defines a career. Young people tend to be vibrant, know every modern framework, and open to new idea's, however they are missing the business knowledge, the "why" things are done in a certain way.

I've lost count of the number of "up and comers" who are ready to "change the world" who get knocked back within their first year because whilst they knew the technologies, they didn't understand the business need.

If you want to continue having a "10x career" after you're no longer young and vibrant, make sure you have that business knowledge as well as the technical, plus the right attitude.

Marc Clifton5-Dec-20 5:54

Marc Clifton

5-Dec-20 5:54

honey the codewitch wrote:
But part of me wonders if it isn't because I'm getting old, and learning all these technologies feels more and more like a waste of what time I have left.

A friend of mine recently said something I considered wise - "consider decisions without concern for money." It's amazing how much clarity one can get by first thinking about "if money were not an issue, what would I do?" then you can add money back in.

The point being, I would also say "consider choosing what you learn without concern for what time you have left."

honey the codewitch wrote:
It's entirely different than how I would have and how I used to build learning systems,

YES! And while there appears to be a lot of successes, I feel like the way AI/machine learning is being done completely misses the mark (pun intended.)

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honey the codewitch5-Dec-20 5:57

5-Dec-20 5:57

Marc Clifton wrote:
A friend of mine recently said something I considered wise - "consider decisions without concern for money."

I'm good at this, probably because of a fundamental distaste for money. An employer once told me money is freedom so chase money and my first thought was to cut out the middle man. I worked less ever since then. Laugh | :laugh:

Though now I'm paid more.

I'll never be rich because of it, but I've known several rich people but no happy ones.

Marc Clifton wrote:
YES! And while there appears to be a lot of successes, I feel like the way AI/machine learning is being done completely misses the mark (pun intended.)

I have a hunch it will continue to miss the mark until we move past computers as Linear Bounded Automata which I simply do not think are up to the task.

Real programmers use butterflies

CodeWraith5-Dec-20 6:01

5-Dec-20 6:01

honey the codewitch wrote:
520kB of RAM

Don't make me cry. I feel sooooo sorry for you. Smile | :)

Once upon a time I was stuck to 4k (and whatever RAMs I could scrape out of electronics junk).

Quote:
Anyone else ever feel that way?

It's simple. Frameworks last about a week until they change everything in a new version. The fundamentals stay forver, no matter what processors, OS, languages or whatever you use. If you only care about the high level stuff, you are just struggling to keep up with all the sh*t someone else wants to dump on your computer.

I have lived with several Zen masters - all of them were cats.

His last invention was an evil Lasagna. It didn't kill anyone, and it actually tasted pretty good.

honey the codewitch5-Dec-20 6:04

5-Dec-20 6:04

32kb effective is the least I've ever had to deal with. 4kb is rough!

I agree with your comment, generally.

Real programmers use butterflies

CodeWraith5-Dec-20 6:18