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Is expensive?
3k per year is a big no. Our first language is Python. I need a shower every time I mention the language.
Yeah, might sound weird to Americans. In Europe, education is in general free. And yes, 3k per year is more than I can afford, aight?
Should I stay, or should I go? This indecision bugging me.
Bastard Programmer from Hell 
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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Python, no less! Python everybody!
Absolute rubbish, laddie.
"In testa che avete, Signor di Ceprano?"
-- Rigoletto
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BASIC would even be a better choice.
Bastard Programmer from Hell 
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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skool ? to learn programming ? makes no sense . 3K yet . 3K would buy a great many textbooks and web downloads . the best edumacation i ever received was that which i taught to myself . -Best
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It would get me a recognized degree 
Bastard Programmer from Hell
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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Since 1967 I taught myself:
Fortran,
Pascal,
C
C++,
C# (All varieties)
SQL,
Java (Not Javascript)
Kotlin (For Android apps)
Jetpack Compose variation of Kotlin
I never spent a dime on classes as far as I can remember
Ok, I have had my coffee, so you can all come out now!
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If'n I recall correctly, my tuition in the 80s was about three kilobucks (USD) per semester.
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In that era, you could work 20 hours a week and cover all school and living expenses except for unexpected emergency, that is when you called the parents: βSend Money!β
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You but for those 6k yearly you now know what a semester is; I had to look it up
Bastard Programmer from Hell
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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Eddy Vluggen wrote: Our first language is Python. I need a shower every time I mention the language.
That is a very popular language. So learning it is a good thing. Will they be teaching other languages?
TIOBE Index - TIOBE[^]
Eddy Vluggen wrote: Should I stay, or should I go?
Can you get a job without it?
Most jobs I see state a degree is needed. But myself I figure that with 5 years of job experience a degree is meaningless.
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jschell wrote: That is a very popular language
So was gwbasic once, but that doesn't mean that it is suited for real life applications nor learning how to program.
jschell wrote: So learning it is a good thing.
It can't hurt to learn to read it, but don't ever expect me to use it in a business environment
jschell wrote: But myself I figure that with 5 years of job experience a degree is meaningless.
I'm at 20+ years.
Still, I'm asked if there's a degree, because it makes a difference in what they'll pay for you.
Bastard Programmer from Hell
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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Eddy Vluggen wrote: So was gwbasic once, but that doesn't mean that it is suited for real life applications nor learning how to program.
Sorry but no that is not an argument.
As a professional programmer the point is to deliver products/services for the company you work for. Not focus on odd ideals.
Companies are using PHP. They are looking to hire people that know how to use it. And the market share is increasing.
Certainly there are some more marketable languages out there but that is the one the school is teaching. Certainly better than something like Go or Rust.
So there is nothing wrong with learning it.
Eddy Vluggen wrote: but don't ever expect me to use it in a business environment
And certainly not if you don't know it in the first place.
Although I have learned every new language I know on the job for the past 30 years.
Eddy Vluggen wrote: I'm at 20+ years.
Not sure how that is relevant. But just so it is clear I have 40 years of experience. And I have many years of experience in C, C++, Java, C# and SQL. Along with various other things.
Eddy Vluggen wrote: because it makes a difference in what they'll pay for you.
Maybe a thing in Europe?
In the US only time that matters for pay is where they are hiring MBA or PHD. And probably then only from specialty programs with published research. It was Big Data and now it is AI.
Only time I really experienced a degree concern in the US was in the era of 'IBM is great'. Certainly nothing since then. Unless of course the person has no work experience at all.
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jschell wrote: As a professional programmer the point is to deliver products/services for the company you work for. Not focus on odd ideals.
Not an odd ideal; I get paid for quality. That cannot be done in gwbasic.
jschell wrote: So there is nothing wrong with learning it
Learning is good  But no, I will never ever write a line of code that goes to production in phyton. Popular might be, but not safe.
jschell wrote: Although I have learned every new language I know on the job for the past 30 years.
In a non-school environment, you get a week to learn a language.
jschell wrote: In the US
Things different there.
Bastard Programmer from Hell 
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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Eddy Vluggen wrote: That cannot be done in gwbasic.
Not having used that specific dialect I cannot comment on that directly.
I did write Basic and maintained it. And certainly one can write code well using that language.
Eddy Vluggen wrote: I will never ever write a line of code that goes to production in phyton.
ok. But as I pointed out and demonstrated employers are looking for expertise. So presumably you will just tell them you won't work for them.
Eddy Vluggen wrote: In a non-school environment, you get a week to learn a language.
Yes I was writing code my second week. What is your point?
Eddy Vluggen wrote: Things different there.
First job post I found in Berlin does not seem to require a degree. Can you point out where it says a degree is required?
java job berlin - Google Search[^]
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jschell wrote: Not having used that specific dialect I cannot comment on that directly.
I did write Basic and maintained it. And certainly one can write code well using that language.
Similar to basic; I would not recommend it as a first language, but I do enjoy it for prototyping.
jschell wrote: ok. But as I pointed out and demonstrated employers are looking for expertise. So presumably you will just tell them you won't work for them.
Yeah, that can happen at multiple points. I do not consider it expertise to work in a language that is lacking. Moreover, I'll lecture you on the risks. That's what I am paid for.
jschell wrote: Yes I was writing code my second week. What is your point?
Week 3 passed. In 2 weeks, they'll explain functions.
jschell wrote: First job post I found in Berlin does not seem to require a degree. Can you point out where it says a degree is required?
Vacancies here often state that a degree of higher education is required, which I lack.
Right now, I'm a nuisance in class. She keeps insisting that I go, maybe to curb my bloody arrogance.
Bastard Programmer from Hell
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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#Worldle #481 4/6 (100%)
π©π©π©β¬β¬βοΈ
π©π©π©π©β¬β‘οΈ
π©π©π©π©π¨β‘οΈ
π©π©π©π©π©π
https://worldle.teuteuf.fr
hard
had to use map
"A little time, a little trouble, your better day"
Badfinger
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Not looking for a job. I'm just curious to know if there are any folks on CP that has ever hired another developer with their own money out of their own pocket or at least was given a budget to hire a team with and was responsible for. Where my peeps at?
I know Marc Clifton has hired contractors waaaaaaaay back in the day. He's an OG. Just curious to know who else.
Jeremy Falcon
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I could see that if so.
Totally a compliment Sander.
Jeremy Falcon
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Not recently, but there have been times when I've outsourced specific bits of development to other freelancers. They weren't employees however. For example, I had a guy (in Russia, as it happens) code up a DLL to implement a TAPI interface to a specific telephone exchange. He delivered on time, I paid on time, all pretty painless. Did it through one of the "job" sites, which is where I was getting most of my work at the time. Can't remember if it was Rent-a-Coder, PeoplePerHour or one of the others; I used several.
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Noice. Just curious to know how many CPains give back and/or value time, etc.
DerekT-P wrote: Rent-a-Coder
Oh man, I sooooooo remember that site. 
Jeremy Falcon
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Yep. I have a team of four who I'm responsible for. Hired two of them. The other two were here when I started. I work with our HR and senior management for bonuses, raises, etc.
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Nice man. How you like it? I know when I was doing it, I enjoyed being able to make a real impact but always missed actually coding.
Jeremy Falcon
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You can work 80 hour weeks. Or more.
Friend of mine wanted that. I recommended against it. At one place he would come in at 3am and code until about 11am, then act as the CTO until about 6pm. He generally also coded on the weekends. Fortunately the wife seemed to be ok with him being out of the house all the time.
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Pete sits in the corner and waves hand.
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