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What do you think would happen if McDonalds redid the qp like ms did the taskbar?
Charlie Gilley
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
Has never been more appropriate.
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Lettuce all on left side to allow selectivity...ketchup on the outside of the bun for visibility. Onions still in there, but in plastic packets...
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They did that, it was called the McDLT. It didn't go over well.
I kind of liked them though.
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A lot of the USA McDonald's have redone the user interface "experience" with the inside Kiosks. Takes more time for the user but saves on a cashier or two. I haven't seen a big win yet for the customer doing it this way.
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Running latest version W11
not running any other taskbar software
Personalization Taskbar settings:
everything off except
hidden icon menu
windows update status
All icons in taskbar are where i have placed them, no grouping
Labels show when hovering over icon.
I do not see your problem.
"A little time, a little trouble, your better day"
Badfinger
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First problem is the icons - I want labels
Second - how many instances of VS for instance you have?
"If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker that came along would destroy civilization." ― Gerald Weinberg
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Labels on icons, understood.
Don't know if that is an option with standard W11 settings.
Not sure I understand VS reference.
"A little time, a little trouble, your better day"
Badfinger
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Labes a not possible with W11 out-of-the-box
I have at least 3 instances of VS open at every given time - I still see a single icon (with a very minor shadow-doubling)... Just crap...
"If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker that came along would destroy civilization." ― Gerald Weinberg
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Ah so. I understand, now, what you mean about grouping.
"A little time, a little trouble, your better day"
Badfinger
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Sounds like you configured W11 to as close as possible to your Windows 10 config?
Charlie Gilley
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
Has never been more appropriate.
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bada bing
"A little time, a little trouble, your better day"
Badfinger
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Yep, I totally agree with you! The grouping thing is so so annoying! I wasted sooo many hours of my life clicking/looking/complaining aver the taskbar. Solved using Startdock Start11 found in a comment here in Code project luckily. And tks to people who like to share their findings, I was going crazy, too!
You are not alone 
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I too have struggled with this missing feature in Windows 11. The grouped setup is the default in Windows 10, so I'm guessing that's why so many who have replied do not know what you are talking about. It really is wild how much more time it takes to switch between windows that are part of the same application takes with the default (grouped) taskbar setup. But then again, I'm always amazed at how many technology professionals and developers don't really know how to use Windows and primary work in applications that do not have multiple windows at the top level.
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solve the problem using windows 10
Those that put class in JavaScript are the same that put var in C#
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I have been sticking with Windows 10 and Stardock's menu system. Why change when there is no need to do so?
Microsoft is notorious for changing things just for the sake of changing them. And they also "throw out the baby with the bathwater for some reason..."
After so many years working with the Microsoft development environments I have decided to stop upgrading my tools based on their say so. As a result, I won't use their Core web development tools (ie. Blazor) because after working on a very large MVC project a number of years ago, I saw no reason to replace ASP.NET WebForms. Those who contend that the new environments are much more efficient may be correct for the internals aspects of them but from an implementation standpoint, these environments are simply far more complex and as a result, big time wasters for most professionals.
Concentrating mostly on Desktop development in the past several years, I am sticking with WPF even though a host of other branches of XAML tools have cropped up. Given that most of them are merely forks of WPF, I decided to stay with the original.
.NET Core? Meh! Microsoft took out more than they put in leaving it to third parties to rewrite what already existed in the original .NET Frameworks. One example of this was WCF, which was left out and as a result, a third-party team has just released their 1.0 version of CoreWCF.
Before anyone starts yelling at me, please note that I am not saying that these new technologies are not better refined than what was found in the original .NET Frameworks. My contention is that why should we constantly upgrade from a mature platform that was very stable to one that is still being developed? In short, why bother?
DO we really need to constantly rewrite our applications simply because Microsoft has this penchant for having the entire community go through massive trauma every time it decides to create a new product?
To date, I have stuck with the .NET Framework 4.6. It is very stable and does what I need it to do. And it has all the development tools I could possibly need.
True, the original frameworks will be going out of support but who cares? When was the last time anyone called Microsoft because they needed support for an internal issue with one of the versions of the .NET Framework. Microsoft did great work with this framework and should have simply left it alone and refined it.
The idea that we need cross-platform development may be true for some developers but for the most part most professionals work in fairy stable OS environments that will not change. For the cross-platform requirements, Microsoft could have followed already existing models that provided tools for such development.
To hear a multi-billion dollar corporation such as Microsoft complain that it would have too hard to take the original software and refine it to work in other environments is nothing but BS. Open Source developers did it with Mono, MonoDevelop, and MonoGame, just to name one example. The other well known one is, Xamarin.
Need I say more?
To date I still do not understand the drive to Windows 11 when just a few years ago Microsoft made a very big thing out of the fact that Windows 10 would be the last major version of Windows. This sounded very fishy given Microsoft's penchant for breaking their word but it appeared to be true.
Given that Windows 11 doesn't really bring all that much to the table for most developers, I would stick with Windows 10 for as long as one can. Unfortunately, all of us will be eventually forced to use Windows 11 once new machines no longer offer Windows 10 operating systems.
The thing of it is, there is always a tool to work around the nonsense that Microsoft implements with its upgrades. The only other choice we have is to turn to Linux for a desktop OS. I have been researching that for years and increasingly this is becoming an option as more and more language compilers are being offered under Linux such as Python with JetBrains freely available PyCharm IDE, which is quite nice.
Satya Nadella has to literally get his head out of the "Cloud" as has admitted that this is his focus. If he keeps it there I suggest that over time many of us will eventually leave the Microsoft development ecosystem simply out of frustration and exhaustion from their erratic behavior...
Steve Naidamast
Sr. Software Engineer
Black Falcon Software, Inc.
blackfalconsoftware@outlook.com
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Steve Naidamast wrote: Why change when there is no need to do so?
It is a work laptop, and I have no say about the OS... At home I'm using Fedora for more than a decade, of which at least 6 years I have no even VMs of Windows...
"If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker that came along would destroy civilization." ― Gerald Weinberg
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When I worked on the mainframes back in the years when dinosaurs were still considered an option for pets, I did both batch and online development. Only once in 12 years in this part of the field did we have or even need an upgrade to the COBOL compiler.
With Microsoft both the C# and VB.NET (no longer being evolved) languages had so many features added to them that the source code could look so arcane as to be unintelligible. This was one of the factors that destroyed the Nantucket Clipper Compiler, which was very popular in the 1980s and 1990s.
Microsoft could land itself in the same situation the way things are going with them.
As professionals, we don't need constant change. What we really require is stability...
Steve Naidamast
Sr. Software Engineer
Black Falcon Software, Inc.
blackfalconsoftware@outlook.com
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Microsoft is notorious for changing things just for the sake of changing them. And they also "throw out the baby with the bathwater for some reason..."
You must need an Altair computer.
Charlie Gilley
When MS changes the interface and it bothers you, remember, somewhere there is an Altair computer out there for you.
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Does Open Shell work on Win11? If so, it's free. I've been using it on Win10 since Win10 was released, as it provides a Win7 style Start menu.
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Yes, but I think you need to use the beta version. That's what I'm running.
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Thanks for the tip. I'm continuing to use Win10 for the foreseeable future. While my desktop (upgraded a year ago) will run Win11, my 7 yo laptop will not, so I'm holding off until I have to replace the laptop.
I tried other Win10 menu replacements, but Classic Shell / Open Shell has been the best and problem free.
FYI for other readers -- Classic Shell was available from 2009 to 2017, when the author quit supporting it. It was transitioned to Open Shell, which I'm currently using.
I'm using the current release 4.4.170, although there is a 4.4.189 pre-release. @sasadler, is that the version you're recommending for Win11?
Releases · Open-Shell/Open-Shell-Menu · GitHub[^]
I'll sometimes use a pre-release on my laptop, but don't mess around with my desktop.
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Yep, I'm using the 4.4.189 version.
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That's why I'm waiting for Windows 12 to upgrade. The rule is, every other release is worthless.
Da Bomb
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Kevin bless the ARM Cortex A family.
As soon as you're using one, you basically need to run linux or android.
Particularly if it does HDMI and has a GPU.
I've been combing through ZephyrOS's compatibility, and there's nothing useful.
Even if there was, nothing would support HDMI and a GPU.
ZephyrOS+LVGL+Arm Cortex A53+Mali GPU would be a winning team.
Instant boot. Nice, modern looking UI. Very little DDR3 ram required, and the whole thing could fit on hundred megabits of flash or so for even the most involved applications.
It's what I want. I know how to wire the hardware now. Those SBC thingies are actually easy to wire up. The trick is messing with BGA (so I'd just leave it to the professionals)
The problem is the software. ZephyrOS doesn't support it, and LVGL doesn't support OpenGL 2D acceleration, though I could probably implement that. The issue is no driver level support for the HDMI facilities of these chips. I wouldn't know where to begin.
I need a friggin team. This needs an open source project. But yeah. Far be it from me to think I can get any traction on something like that without an initial offering to show people.
And getting from here to there? It may as well be the moon. I probably won't live long enough if I had to do it on my own. I don't have enough man years left in me.
Why isn't there something - if not this - some kind of parallel out there? The use cases are endless. The predictability of such a package compared to something linux or android based - there's no comparison. The former is more predictable, real time, more testable, and has less boot time (almost none) and far less resource requirements.
It would make building smart machines so much less expensive, both to build and maintain an ongoing product. They would be less "crashy" - they would be less impossible to flowchart, if you needed to do that.
These damned things can run webkit, sure, but what if you don't need all that, don't want it, and don't want to pay for it?
This is a software problem, ultimately. That's what kills me. It's solvable. I just can't do it myself. 
To err is human. Fortune favors the monsters.
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If someone has built an Android smartphone or tablet around it (or one of its close cousins), then there is an appropriate hardware abstraction layer for Linux out there for it. I would look for companies that produce development boards for such devices and see if the software for the development board is downloadable in source code form, possibly after registration.
You probably (certainly?) won't be able to use the code in a commercial product, but at least it'll get you running.
Your Google-fu for this sort of thing is probably better than mine.
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.
-- 6079 Smith W.
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