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charlieg wrote: Why MS would mess with something so fundamental as the task bar
What exactly do you think is fundamentally different between 10 and 11?
If there is no fundamental difference then how does Microsoft sell it? Because after all they are selling it to make money not to make your (or my) life better. So they change stuff and then claim the change is better.
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Well, the task bar is the task bar. I have it configured to the right side of my screen. It's been for the past 5+ years. Why can't I do that on 11? It's not even an option. I can do left or center and I have to go drill down into personalizations. In Windows 10, I just drag it where I want it.
So, in my mind, MS took away functionality for no apparent reason. It doesn't make anything better.
As for MS wanting to make money - fine. ADD a real feature, or at least give users the ability to go back to their previous configuration. I find it dubious that changing the task bar helps them sell software. I think the other rant is more appropriate.
Charlie Gilley
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
Has never been more appropriate.
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I like the task bar at the bottom so I haven't ever tried to move it.
All I can say is that I use the following in Windows. My set up basically looks like Win 95.
I can move the icons on the task bar around any place I want them. No text though and I am on 10, but I suspect I find hover overs to be really distracting (not sure if that is something I turned off.)
7+ Taskbar
Classic Shell
I am using Win 10 so the above might or might not work in Win 11.
modified 26-Apr-23 12:40pm.
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Kornfeld Eliyahu Peter wrote: ...MS actually doesn't give a sh*t about end user...
Surely you realized this decades ago. They stopped being "geeks with cool tools" a long time ago. Now they're just a [insert insensitive non-PC adjective here] business like any other.
"One man's wage rise is another man's price increase." - Harold Wilson
"Fireproof doesn't mean the fire will never come. It means when the fire comes that you will be able to withstand it." - Michael Simmons
"You can easily judge the character of a man by how he treats those who can do nothing for him." - James D. Miles
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What do you think would happen if McDonalds redid the qp like ms did the taskbar?
Charlie Gilley
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
Has never been more appropriate.
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Lettuce all on left side to allow selectivity...ketchup on the outside of the bun for visibility. Onions still in there, but in plastic packets...
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They did that, it was called the McDLT. It didn't go over well.
I kind of liked them though.
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A lot of the USA McDonald's have redone the user interface "experience" with the inside Kiosks. Takes more time for the user but saves on a cashier or two. I haven't seen a big win yet for the customer doing it this way.
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Running latest version W11
not running any other taskbar software
Personalization Taskbar settings:
everything off except
hidden icon menu
windows update status
All icons in taskbar are where i have placed them, no grouping
Labels show when hovering over icon.
I do not see your problem.
"A little time, a little trouble, your better day"
Badfinger
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First problem is the icons - I want labels
Second - how many instances of VS for instance you have?
"If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker that came along would destroy civilization." ― Gerald Weinberg
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Labels on icons, understood.
Don't know if that is an option with standard W11 settings.
Not sure I understand VS reference.
"A little time, a little trouble, your better day"
Badfinger
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Labes a not possible with W11 out-of-the-box
I have at least 3 instances of VS open at every given time - I still see a single icon (with a very minor shadow-doubling)... Just crap...
"If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker that came along would destroy civilization." ― Gerald Weinberg
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Ah so. I understand, now, what you mean about grouping.
"A little time, a little trouble, your better day"
Badfinger
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Sounds like you configured W11 to as close as possible to your Windows 10 config?
Charlie Gilley
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
Has never been more appropriate.
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bada bing
"A little time, a little trouble, your better day"
Badfinger
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Yep, I totally agree with you! The grouping thing is so so annoying! I wasted sooo many hours of my life clicking/looking/complaining aver the taskbar. Solved using Startdock Start11 found in a comment here in Code project luckily. And tks to people who like to share their findings, I was going crazy, too!
You are not alone 
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I too have struggled with this missing feature in Windows 11. The grouped setup is the default in Windows 10, so I'm guessing that's why so many who have replied do not know what you are talking about. It really is wild how much more time it takes to switch between windows that are part of the same application takes with the default (grouped) taskbar setup. But then again, I'm always amazed at how many technology professionals and developers don't really know how to use Windows and primary work in applications that do not have multiple windows at the top level.
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solve the problem using windows 10
Those that put class in JavaScript are the same that put var in C#
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I have been sticking with Windows 10 and Stardock's menu system. Why change when there is no need to do so?
Microsoft is notorious for changing things just for the sake of changing them. And they also "throw out the baby with the bathwater for some reason..."
After so many years working with the Microsoft development environments I have decided to stop upgrading my tools based on their say so. As a result, I won't use their Core web development tools (ie. Blazor) because after working on a very large MVC project a number of years ago, I saw no reason to replace ASP.NET WebForms. Those who contend that the new environments are much more efficient may be correct for the internals aspects of them but from an implementation standpoint, these environments are simply far more complex and as a result, big time wasters for most professionals.
Concentrating mostly on Desktop development in the past several years, I am sticking with WPF even though a host of other branches of XAML tools have cropped up. Given that most of them are merely forks of WPF, I decided to stay with the original.
.NET Core? Meh! Microsoft took out more than they put in leaving it to third parties to rewrite what already existed in the original .NET Frameworks. One example of this was WCF, which was left out and as a result, a third-party team has just released their 1.0 version of CoreWCF.
Before anyone starts yelling at me, please note that I am not saying that these new technologies are not better refined than what was found in the original .NET Frameworks. My contention is that why should we constantly upgrade from a mature platform that was very stable to one that is still being developed? In short, why bother?
DO we really need to constantly rewrite our applications simply because Microsoft has this penchant for having the entire community go through massive trauma every time it decides to create a new product?
To date, I have stuck with the .NET Framework 4.6. It is very stable and does what I need it to do. And it has all the development tools I could possibly need.
True, the original frameworks will be going out of support but who cares? When was the last time anyone called Microsoft because they needed support for an internal issue with one of the versions of the .NET Framework. Microsoft did great work with this framework and should have simply left it alone and refined it.
The idea that we need cross-platform development may be true for some developers but for the most part most professionals work in fairy stable OS environments that will not change. For the cross-platform requirements, Microsoft could have followed already existing models that provided tools for such development.
To hear a multi-billion dollar corporation such as Microsoft complain that it would have too hard to take the original software and refine it to work in other environments is nothing but BS. Open Source developers did it with Mono, MonoDevelop, and MonoGame, just to name one example. The other well known one is, Xamarin.
Need I say more?
To date I still do not understand the drive to Windows 11 when just a few years ago Microsoft made a very big thing out of the fact that Windows 10 would be the last major version of Windows. This sounded very fishy given Microsoft's penchant for breaking their word but it appeared to be true.
Given that Windows 11 doesn't really bring all that much to the table for most developers, I would stick with Windows 10 for as long as one can. Unfortunately, all of us will be eventually forced to use Windows 11 once new machines no longer offer Windows 10 operating systems.
The thing of it is, there is always a tool to work around the nonsense that Microsoft implements with its upgrades. The only other choice we have is to turn to Linux for a desktop OS. I have been researching that for years and increasingly this is becoming an option as more and more language compilers are being offered under Linux such as Python with JetBrains freely available PyCharm IDE, which is quite nice.
Satya Nadella has to literally get his head out of the "Cloud" as has admitted that this is his focus. If he keeps it there I suggest that over time many of us will eventually leave the Microsoft development ecosystem simply out of frustration and exhaustion from their erratic behavior...
Steve Naidamast
Sr. Software Engineer
Black Falcon Software, Inc.
blackfalconsoftware@outlook.com
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Steve Naidamast wrote: Why change when there is no need to do so?
It is a work laptop, and I have no say about the OS... At home I'm using Fedora for more than a decade, of which at least 6 years I have no even VMs of Windows...
"If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker that came along would destroy civilization." ― Gerald Weinberg
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When I worked on the mainframes back in the years when dinosaurs were still considered an option for pets, I did both batch and online development. Only once in 12 years in this part of the field did we have or even need an upgrade to the COBOL compiler.
With Microsoft both the C# and VB.NET (no longer being evolved) languages had so many features added to them that the source code could look so arcane as to be unintelligible. This was one of the factors that destroyed the Nantucket Clipper Compiler, which was very popular in the 1980s and 1990s.
Microsoft could land itself in the same situation the way things are going with them.
As professionals, we don't need constant change. What we really require is stability...
Steve Naidamast
Sr. Software Engineer
Black Falcon Software, Inc.
blackfalconsoftware@outlook.com
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Microsoft is notorious for changing things just for the sake of changing them. And they also "throw out the baby with the bathwater for some reason..."
You must need an Altair computer.
Charlie Gilley
When MS changes the interface and it bothers you, remember, somewhere there is an Altair computer out there for you.
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Does Open Shell work on Win11? If so, it's free. I've been using it on Win10 since Win10 was released, as it provides a Win7 style Start menu.
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Yes, but I think you need to use the beta version. That's what I'm running.
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If you find something useful, $5 is a measly amount, especially considering that MS is now giving away a lot of development tools many of us use.
I'll be getting a new laptop soon, and will either learn to live with it, or also spend a little to make it tolerable! 
