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I'm an engineer. I like my data ORGANIZED. It used to be I could go out to usenet and talk with really smart people and get stuff done - even Microsoft tech.
Then companies realized we want to be able to control all that - and the Microsoft forums were born. But that was okay because the topics and data were still ORGANIZED.
The companies realized allowing google to cypher their data was bad, and google or any other search tools no longer delved into the microsoft forums. But it was okay - it was still ORGANIZED.
Then Microsoft created learn.microsoft.com where it's all one amorphous blob. Or maybe it's just me, but I think not. For me to learn how to use this abortion, I give you this: Microsoft Q&A Articles | Microsoft Learn[^]
I dare you to click. And if I want to ask a question? Well instead of being organized by topic, we get to use random tags, etc.
But maybe it's just me.
Charlie Gilley
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
Has never been more appropriate.
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All of that is now obsolete and is being replaced by ChatGPT in short order.
*hides*
To err is human. Fortune favors the monsters.
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ditto
"A little time, a little trouble, your better day"
Badfinger
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Worse - Bing assisted by ChatGPT!
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.
-- 6079 Smith W.
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Ah yes more stupid answers.
Charlie Gilley
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
Has never been more appropriate.
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I agree. Every time Microsoft "reorganizes" their support sites entropy increases. I remember being able to quickly find what I was looking for. Now it's just a mass of spaghetti.
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The fact that 'Profile and reputation' comes before 'Asking and answering questions' tells it all...
The site is full of code samples that not even compile, a bunch that barely touch the surface of the object, or just simply does not related to the subject...
Nowadays it is next to impossible to find good documentation on new and developing technologies of MS... It reminds me the days when we learned by reading others - mostly assembly - code...
"Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid." ― Albert Einstein
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It's not just you. Microsoft's so-called documentation is starting to resemble the late, unlamented, Novell's documentation. 
This may be deliberate. Has Microsoft opened a consulting subsidiary?
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.
-- 6079 Smith W.
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Not exactly, but if you pay good money to became a MS partner you can get a better support... On phone, and emails and meetings...
It is most annoying, and takes more time to actually get results...
"Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid." ― Albert Einstein
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Ah, but on the plus side...
I have a business O365 account with a client. Every day, MS sends me a "digest mail" telling me the contents of any email I sent recently. Very handy in case I sent any email in my sleep, that I am unaware of. Or have forgotten. I think it is limited to in house (as opposed to outhouse) emails. I rarely use the account so am not sure. I do use it to have the NVR software send me surveillance camera alerts, with photo, created by Chris's AI software. Very few misses or false alerts. And it is using <gasp> Python. 
>64
Some days the dragon wins. Suck it up.
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well, I feel a little better now.
The latest trend for Microsoft is to remove links to support items for older products. I still run VS2008 for "smart device" development. On occasion, I need to rebuild a VM or some other developer wants to wander into the code base. To get VS2008 to do the work, you need 2008, SP1 and a patch to fix SP1 .
All long gone from Microsoft's site, but I still have them. Just sent a link to a guy suffering ...
speaking of old stuff - anyone here with a usenet account? I'm curious if usenet still hosts the old MS development groups.
Charlie Gilley
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
Has never been more appropriate.
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I've looked through my list of usenet groups, but I could find only these two that have posts and might be of slight interest (the numbers are the number of posts on eternal-september).
alt.comp.microsoft.windows 939
alt.windows7.general 5568
I didn't see any MS development groups.
--
Dave W
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charlieg wrote: I still run VS2008
So do we. We have several products and tools still maintained using VS2008. Our 'new' product development uses VS2019, and will probably move to VS2022 this year.
When you've got products with a 20+ year life span and a very busy dev team, you don't change tools unnecessarily.
Software Zen: delete this;
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I totally agree. The Microsoft help files are abysmal. Not only poorly organized, but most often incomprehensible.
Ed
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Yeah ... what I remember as "MSDN" is gone. If you're not good at weeding, good luck.
"Before entering on an understanding, I have meditated for a long time, and have foreseen what might happen. It is not genius which reveals to me suddenly, secretly, what I have to say or to do in a circumstance unexpected by other people; it is reflection, it is meditation." - Napoleon I
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To make it even more fun, they remove all of their older documentation. If you ever do Win32 coding (and I don't suggest you do unless you enjoy pain), good lucking on getting documentation for that now.
Jeremy Falcon
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Indeed. What is the cost, to them, of leaving that old documentation online in whatever state it was when it was last updated? It makes zero sense to remove that old stuff that no longer changes. The fact that MS no longer proactively develops anything using some older library/SDK/whatever doesn't mean nobody else does.
How many useful blog entries, TechNet articles, etc have completely disappeared or can no longer be found because of dead links?
Years ago I thought it was rather clever of MS to have links pointing to www.microsoft.com/fwlink?id=XXXXX because that meant any time they revamped some site, they could update any "real" target URL and keep it up to date so a page you simply know as "XXXXX" could remain accessible over time, and the dead link problem could be solved once and for all...how naive of me.
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there is no cost, marketing has been in control forever. So, if they drive you to their learn crap, they can push advertising and control the content.
The best support I ever received was from usenet - it had Microsoft people and 3rd party grunts to help.
And Microsoft screwed the pooch. You know what I'm about to do on my own time (training exercise)? I'm going to re-write the entire Mfc UI in html5, javascript and web sockets. I don't need no stinking OS.
It reminds me of what I learned in business - you don't need to be excellent, you just need to suck less than your competition.
Charlie Gilley
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
Has never been more appropriate.
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I've been saying for decades, just when you thought MS's documentation couldn't possibly get any worse, they find a way to outdo themselves and exceed all expectations.
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I am a novice at programming and have played with various languages
JavaFX Android Studio NSBasic for Palm Pilots Visual Basic 6 and VB.Net
decided to try and learn C# with WinForms and VS 2019
OK "Micorsoft" and "Learn" are complete opposites incongruous
who ever writes these words could not teach first grade math
Still Looking for a FREE book to Learn C# with SQLite and WinForms
Suggestions welcomed YES just starting my Search
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And you sir get the prize!
Charlie Gilley
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
Has never been more appropriate.
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I've been offline for the first time in forever, savouring the coffee and defrosting in the heat of Melbourne for the last couple of weeks to recharge after a year of melting my brain with AI, Python, PyTorch, ML.NET, and the adventure that is everything Nvidia.
I'm heading back to the polar opposite, in so many ways, tomorrow, and will be back at my desk this weekend.
I hope everyone managed to stay safe. We were affected by those ice/snow storms in both Vancouver and Toronto which made Christmas travel nail biting. We've also managed not to actually catch one of the 257 viruses going around at the moment, which seems an unlikely but welcome achievement.
Happy New Year everyone. Maybe third time's the charm this year, and we can finally move on from the disruption, uncertainty, anxiety and isolation that so many have experienced the past nearly 3 years.
cheers
Chris Maunder
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Have a wonderful new year, Chris.
I doubt that the disruption is over; then news coming out of China isn't good - and the more infections, the higher the chance of more mutations. 
There is talk of re-introducing masks into England, though some of that is Flu and colds. It's been great having a couple of years without even the winter sniffles though ...
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony
"Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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Happy New Year!
"In testa che avete, Signor di Ceprano?"
-- Rigoletto
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