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There. I said it.
Microsoft is good at creating visual designers. They just are. Now, we've all complained about them, but we all use them (or rather, many of us do) because the alternatives are so much worse.
I've been wrestling with EAGLE trying to build a schematic, and whoever designed it broke every possible rule of good UI design and maybe a few that haven't been written yet. Using it is like having your teeth pulled.
And I think back to Visio, as much as I hated it, it was so much better than this.
To err is human. Fortune favors the monsters.
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Have you tried Fusion 360? I like it for 3d modelling / printing.
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony
"Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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Not sure I can use it to make schematics and board layouts though.
To err is human. Fortune favors the monsters.
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Me no great fan of Microsoft. But it is undeniable that they have done a dang good job with code, along with attracting great add-ons.
For many applications, there is often excellent freeware. For example, you may google, for video-editing software until you die and stumble into Adobe and other rip-offs, until you eventually find, or learn about BlackMagic Design. Top notch, free, and mosdef not the first search page hit.
So it makes me wonder, what you have tried... I have no of course clue of what scale of board you are designing, or how many boards. It might be related to MIDI, or not. But it would surprise me if no freeware would cut the cake, for a one-or-few-person-project, or cut close enuff. Are all these[^] really just crap?
If your project is not top secret, then purrhaps the web-based designers, might be candidates as well?
"If we don't change direction, we'll end up where we're going"
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I'm kind of stuck with something that can read the formats mouser provides so I can lay out the appropriate parts.
To err is human. Fortune favors the monsters.
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Ah, guess that limits your choices...
"If we don't change direction, we'll end up where we're going"
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I case you don't know the story behind it, Eagle was designed by a German company (CadSoft). On principle, I stay away from German designed UI and Eagle was just one more example why I should follow this rule.
Now it is part of AutoDesk and it is slowly integrated with Fusion360. It's getting better but still has a way to go. There are alternatives out there but once you've made you parts library, switching is more difficult.
Mircea
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Message Closed
modified 15-May-23 19:06pm.
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Well, I have some sympathy for CadSoft/AutoDesk. Maintaining an old and successful product requires difficult compromises between modernizing the product and not alienating old users.
-- WARNING - Long story only somewhat related to subject ---
There is a story, most probably just a legend, about an experiment where researchers put 5 monkeys in a cage and a banana up on a branch. Every time a monkey would climb to get the banana the other monkeys would get a cold shower. Soon enough every time a monkey would climb on the branch, the other monkeys would start beating the intrepid even without the cold showers. In the end no monkey would dare to climb on the branch.
In the next phase, the researchers started replacing monkeys form the original group with new ones and every time a new monkey would try to climb up the branch to pick up the banana, the other monkeys would start beating it. Soon there were no monkeys from the original group, however every time a monkey would go up the branch it would get beaten because "that's the way we do things around here".
Getting back to Eagle, it started at a time when Hercules graphics cards were the pinnacle of resolution and the hardware limitations were atrocious. Updating the product without annoying old users and having them move to a competitor is not that simple.
Mircea
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Ah, yes! Anything in German is with the verb at the end designed, so before the sentence to understand can, you must the entire sentence in a mental buffer place.
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Yoda surely German ancestors he had.
Mircea
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Sounds like RPN. Don't all programmers learn that at some point? 
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2D: NanoCad
3D: SketchUp (FreeCad can a couple of thing more, but is way more frustrating)
For me more than enough
M.D.V. 
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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Dassault Systems (Catia, SolidWorks, etc...) offers an awesome AutoCad 2D clone called Draftsight. It used to be free for home use. Sadly, it's gone 100% paid at $249 / year.
DraftSight[^]
Free Trial[^]
modified 30-Aug-22 16:33pm.
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With how much harder the ribbon is to use than the old menu system, No.
If you are just building a schematic, what is to keep you from using something like Inkscape? It will be harder to use than a CAD program, but will it be easier to use than EAGLE?
If NanoCAD still has a free option, I'd probably go with it for 2D work. I think I liked LibreCAD when I played with it, but now I only do 3D stuff, and use Alibre Atom 3D. I would probably fake a 2D drawing with it if I had to do 2D stuff.
Good luck!
edit - what exactly is a schematic for the work you are doing, and how do you need to supply the output to suppliers?
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I gave up on Eagle and instead went to Kicad.
Kicad seems to work much easier -- for me.
I had never used a CAD type of program before and Kicad got me all the way to a complete PCB which I sent to oshkosh and had manufactured.
try it, it's free: KiCad EDA - Schematic Capture & PCB Design Software[^]
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Sweet, nice to hear about a fellow Kicad user! I haven't designed a full board yet, but am toying with it. It's nice!
What was your project? Any links?
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Mine is a device which monitors room temperature, saves to SD card if chosen (button pressed or selected via bluetooth) and will report info back over bluetooth.
Here's an older tweet (ala twitter) that shows the schematic: https://twitter.com/raddevus/status/1428800395627876359[^]
The device has an oled screen, bluetooth module, tmp36 (for getting temperature), uses an atmega4809 and has a realtime clock -- so you can know temp at specific times.
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Sweet project! I've been meaning to make one of these myself for my garage. You selling these?
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I agree,
I used Eagle for several projects, and found it to restrictive for small projects (Understand they want to sell it to you) but the free version changed when sold to another company
I also tried DesignSpark it works but has stalled on development and seemed awkward to use
I started using KiCad several years ago and it seems to work well with no restrictions
If you are just doing schematics (electronic) it should be good for you
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I absolutely agree. I have already used KiCad for several professional project and every time I obtained a perfect PCB at the first attempt - which was not always the case when I used Eagle.
I admit that initially the name KiCad made me think of a hobby-oriented software, but KiCad is much more than that (its development was supported by CERN, and now it is a really powerful CAD).
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This one is 3D but you can omit the Z axis and draw semantics
IT is FREE to use online I use it to model woodworking models
Trimble Identity[^]
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It would need to be able to load common electronics component models, including schematics. Most 3D cad programs can't do schematics, and then routing based on that.
To err is human. Fortune favors the monsters.
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I haven't tried DesignSpark, but some like it.
An other possibility(s) is the software from the board house. I used ExpressPCB several years back - poor software but simple for the small thing I was doing - their 3 boards 2" x 3" deal worked for me. ( But I only needed 7 LEDs, terminal strips and stuff, no logic ICs. ) ( Also, I needed to have the board match the enclosure top ( a Rose & Bopla cast Al box - you need an HMI for 6 spindle multiples? IR, Bosch, Copco... ? ) so some component placement was dictated by panel design. )
There's at least 2 other places with their own software and I expect the software has gotten better.
Better than breadboards, ( Oh, I really like my Hakko iron. And the PanaVise. )
Have fun.
dave
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[^] KiCad is free and brilliant.
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