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I believe 3.5" floppies first arrived with IBM's PS/2. The Wikipedia agrees : IBM PS/2 - Wikipedia[^]. It used PC-DOC 3.3 along with a few other OSs.
"They have a consciousness, they have a life, they have a soul! Damn you! Let the rabbits wear glasses! Save our brothers! Can I get an amen?"
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Note that while most of us think of 3.5" floppies as having a 1.44 Mbyte capacity, the first variants held 360 kbyte, then came 720 kbyte, then 1.44 Mbyte which became The Floppy that everyone has heard of. There also was 2.88 Mbyte standard, but it never enjoyed great success - new media was coming in.
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trønderen wrote: There also was 2.88 Mbyte standard, but it never enjoyed great success
There was also the LS-120 which became my very first PC hardware hack back in '98.  I've still got the drive and a few disks!
"Go forth into the source" - Neal Morse
"Hope is contagious"
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I remember the 720KB disks being the low-density variety, and the ubiquitous 1.44MB, but have no recollection of the 360KB ones. Weren't those the low-density 5.25" ones (high density being 1.2MB)?
I do recall the 2.88MB 3.5" disks, but have never seen one.
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Yes, we had 360k 3.5" floppies. According to Museum of Obsolete Media[^], 360k floppies arrived in 1982, while 720k arrived in 1984. 1.44M arrived in 1987.
The 360 and 720 versions were physically similar, so you could reformat a 720 as a 360, and usually the other way around as well. 720 packed the data more densely, and required a higher quality. So manufacturers tested each disk for the 720 quality requirements, and those failing were sold as 360 at a lower price. As the manufacturing process improved, those not passing were still quite good and much cheaper. So the market for 360 kept up - but most of them were used as 720.
There were rumors (probably true) that when the manufacturers had enough 'passed' 720 floppies to satisfy the demand, the rest of the batch was left for the 360 marked without testing. Possibly, most or a lot of them would have passed as 720 if they had been tested, but with the 720 market saturated, labeling the rest as 360s to get them sold was better than just throwing them away
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I guess so.
I looked at some of my old software. One box has 5.25 and 3.5 and requires "DOS 2+", so at least the operating system would read it if the drive was installed.
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So I was handed a laptop with Win8.1 last evening to upgrade to 10, since it's now unsupported and major browsers no longer install on it.
I figured, this should be straightforward enough. The laptop is slow and using a spinner, but I thought I'd just let it run overnight. Should still be plenty of time.
I let it install updates as it went along, the idea being, by the time it's done, it'll be up to date already (or at least that's the theory). Otherwise, if you don't let it, you still have to catch up with whatever updates have been released since the ISO was created (and this is 22H2, the latest).
Woke up this morning to a message saying the upgrade failed (and had reverted back to 8.1) "...during INSTALL_UPDATES operation".
So much for the time-saver.
So I've restarted the upgrade, this time, telling it to stick with the files from the ISO and nothing else. For good measure, Ethernet has been disconnected, and this laptop doesn't know any of my wifi passwords. Hopefully that works, otherwise I'm quickly running out of options, and my only other recourse might to be repave. Which I don't wanna do as there's user files all over the place, and the owner doesn't remember half of his passwords.
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Is it possible to back up all files and do re-format of the hard drive and fresh install of Windows 10/11? I would not upgrade if I could help it.
modified 25-May-23 10:40am.
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Slacker007 wrote: Is it possible to back up all files and do re-format of the hard drive and fresh install of Windows 10/11?
...and then do what with the backed up files? See my response to Jeremy below. There's user files in folders that definitely should NOT have user files, and you'd never know where to look. The "standard" folders (docs, pictures, music, downloads, etc) are practically empty (his kid "cleaned it up"). But there's obviously still tons of documents that were missed.
Reformatting usually is my preferred approach (I've always had a healthy distrust of upgrade procedures, especially when it comes to the entire OS), but this laptop is a mess.
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dandy72 wrote: Which I don't wanna do as there's user files all over the place, and the owner doesn't remember half of his passwords.
As long as he didn't put his files in C:\Windows, C:\ProgramData, Program Files, etc. you should be ok to do a fresh install. You don't have to wipe out the volume to do a fresh install.
Actually come to think of it... if he has the disk space, create a separate backup volume and put everything in it.... everything. Then do a fresh install on C:. Let the owner comb through his old files.
Jeremy Falcon
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The only hassle with that is if he signs in with an even slightly different user - in that case, the backed up files are not owned by him, and he can't access them.
I've been asked to fix just such a situation, and it's truly a PITA if he can't remember the username he used last time and didn't use a MS Id.
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony
"Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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Yeah, that's a good point. Can always make it a non-NFTS volume or perhaps strip permissions first.
Jeremy Falcon
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I've successfully "took ownership" of other user profiles when logged in as admin before.
But this isn't something I'll be doing in this case.
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Jeremy Falcon wrote: Then do a fresh install on C:. Let the owner comb through his old files.
You're way overestimating the user's capabilities. I might as well tell him everything's been wiped; the results would be the same.
The concept of folders is lost on this person. Opening Word's history, for example, shows he's been working on doc files that were sent to him, directly from whatever folders the receiving program decided to use. There's a bunch of .doc/.docx files stored under the user's profile, under ...AppData\Local\Packages\microsoft.windowscommunicationsapp_[blah1]\LocalState\LiveComm[blah2][blah3], where [blahX] is not quite as ugly as a full-blown GUID, but still comes pretty close. No trace of those same files under Documents, where they rightfully belong.
So yeah, no. I'm not touching that.
modified 25-May-23 11:27am.
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dandy72 wrote: So yeah, no. I'm not touching that.
People only do this if they're trying to save money for a laptop upgrade. I suppose fear of tech could be another reason, but I hope this dude is at least paying you a buttload.
That being said, you can do a fresh install anyway and delete the backup volume after you restore old files yourself. Just don't do it for free... 
Jeremy Falcon
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Jeremy Falcon wrote: People only do this if they're trying to save money for a laptop upgrade. I suppose fear of tech could be another reason,
It's definitely a combination of things. People (not just myself) have been telling him forever that his laptop is dying, but this is one of those people who doesn't see the value in tech and despises investing any money in it.
Jeremy Falcon wrote: you can do a fresh install anyway and delete the backup volume after you restore old files yourself. Just don't do it for free...
I'm not being paid nearly enough to do this. To make it worth my while, he'd have to spend the sort of money that would go a long way towards an entirely new machine. See previous paragraph.
Thing is, it's not what I do for a living, and somehow people around me have gained the impression that "since it's not what I do for work", so to speak, I can't justify premium rates.
It'll come to a point where I'll just stop completely...
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dandy72 wrote: I'm not being paid nearly enough to do this.
Totally get it.
Jeremy Falcon
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dandy72 wrote: my only other recourse might to be repave. Which I don't wanna do as there's user files all over the place, and the owner doesn't remember half of his passwords.
Part of me says these reasons are precisely why you should "repave". People need to learn to organize their lives data better and maybe this is the "come to Jesus" moment this person needs.
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Nope.
Nope, nope nope.
This isn't my first rodeo. I'll be blamed for creating a mess despite my best intentions. After all, from the user's perspective, I will have created a problem that didn't exist before.
You can't do these things to people and wash your hands of it and tell them they ought to know better.
That being said, there are situations where I have no problem telling people, up-front (and that's the key) we need to wipe everything and start over. Then it becomes their decision on whether to proceed or not. This is not one of those situations.
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dandy72 wrote: You can't do these things to people and wash your hands of it and tell them they ought to know better.
Absolutely: you will get blamed for their c**k up. 
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony
"Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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OriginalGriff wrote: you will get blamed for their c**k up
If was anybody other than my better half, I'd be OK with that.
"the debugger doesn't tell me anything because this code compiles just fine" - random QA comment
"Facebook is where you tell lies to your friends. Twitter is where you tell the truth to strangers." - chriselst
"I don't drink any more... then again, I don't drink any less." - Mike Mullikins uncle
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jeron1 wrote: I'd be OK with that.
Well, that's part of my problem. On one hand, I've had people tell me I'm way too nice of a guy when it comes to helping other people with their technical..."shortcomings".
On the other hand, some other people would question whether they're even talking about the same guy.
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dandy72 wrote: I'm way too nice of a guy when it comes to helping other people with their technical..."shortcomings"
I've never been accused of that.
"the debugger doesn't tell me anything because this code compiles just fine" - random QA comment
"Facebook is where you tell lies to your friends. Twitter is where you tell the truth to strangers." - chriselst
"I don't drink any more... then again, I don't drink any less." - Mike Mullikins uncle
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I envy you.
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