Welcome to the Lounge

Nelek18-Mar-20 0:14

18-Mar-20 0:14

fair enough.

Still, there are people that voluntarily don't want to understand because it doesn't fit their agenda (and I know a couple of those, it is impossible to have a conversation with them about many topics)

M.D.V.

If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.

ZurdoDev17-Mar-20 1:52

17-Mar-20 1:52

Chris Maunder wrote:
's not about stopping the spread. It's about giving those most at risk a chance to get treatment at a hospital

That makes some sense but the numbers don't seem to match. If the hospitals were only admitting those that need treatment (which there isn't much treatment available anyway) it doesn't seem like they'd be running out of beds. If that is true, all of our hospital systems are in pretty bad shape. And when a much worse virus happens in the future, then what?

Plus the treatments that are available at the hospital can also be done in the home. The US, at least, has tons of home health care workers. If hospitals are being overrun maybe they need to do in-home care.

Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other.

Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it.
Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.

Jörgen Andersson17-Mar-20 1:55

17-Mar-20 1:55

It's not about physical beds. There are plenty of those.

It's about breathing machines, ventilators or respirators.

Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello

ZurdoDev17-Mar-20 1:57

17-Mar-20 1:57

Jörgen Andersson wrote:
It's about breathing machines, ventilators or respirators.

In that case, who manufactures them? I'm going to be buying some stock today. $Shucks | :-\$

But in seriousness, if that is indeed the case then this virus has exposed a massive flaw in the entire world's healthcare system. Because the next time we have a pandemic, it will not be a strong flu, it will likely be something much worse.

Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other.

Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it.
Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.

Jörgen Andersson17-Mar-20 2:05

17-Mar-20 2:05

The healthcare systems are dimensioned for normality, or in some cases for maximum profit. Dead | X|

ZurdoDev wrote:
Because the next time we have a pandemic, it will not be a strong flu, it will likely be something much worse.

Actually, the much worse has already happened, it was called SARS, but that killed so many people that it didn't have time to infect new victims, and was therefore much easier to contain.

BTW, for some fun you can look up "honeycomb lung"
Those that gets critically damaged will remain so.

Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello

ZurdoDev17-Mar-20 2:11

17-Mar-20 2:11

Jörgen Andersson wrote:
and was therefore much easier to contain.

So, it wasn't worse then. Big Grin | :-D

Jörgen Andersson wrote:
Those that gets critically damaged will remain so.

A quick google search shows that Serrapeptase can help with that.

Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other.

Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it.
Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.

Jörgen Andersson17-Mar-20 2:19

17-Mar-20 2:19

ZurdoDev wrote:
A quick google search shows that Serrapeptase can help with that

Inflammation is a bodily function to reduce spreading of virus or bacteria virus (amongst others).
They've tried it, but anti inflammatory medicine tends to kill the patients instead.

Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello

ZurdoDev17-Mar-20 2:21

17-Mar-20 2:21

Jörgen Andersson wrote:
Serrapeptase

From what I saw it can eliminate or reduce scaring, which seems to be the issue with the honeycomb you mentioned.

Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other.

Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it.
Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.

Jörgen Andersson17-Mar-20 2:22

17-Mar-20 2:22

It does.

Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello

Nelek17-Mar-20 2:07

17-Mar-20 2:07

ZurdoDev wrote:
But in seriousness, if that is indeed the case then this virus has exposed a massive flaw in the entire world's healthcare system.

Yes, it has. And that's why right now, the only way is to slow things down.

ZurdoDev wrote:
Because the next time we have a pandemic, it will not be a strong flu, it will likely be something much worse.

My point in several discussions... oh, wait... are you agreeing with me in something? I have to do a screenshot for the posterity.
Or are you starting to have fever? Do you feel well?

M.D.V.

ZurdoDev17-Mar-20 2:12

17-Mar-20 2:12

Nelek wrote:
are you agreeing with me in something? I

I always agree with myself so if something is different here, it is you. Poke tongue | ;-P

Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other.

Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it.
Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.

Nelek17-Mar-20 1:55

17-Mar-20 1:55

ZurdoDev wrote:
but the numbers don't seem to match.

Then look again. In some hospitals in Italy, the doctors are being forced to disconnect some patients to give the respirator to other patients that have better chances.

M.D.V.

ZurdoDev17-Mar-20 2:00

17-Mar-20 2:00

Nelek wrote:
In some hospitals in Italy, the doctors are being forced to disconnect some patients to give the respirator to other patients that have better chances.

To be fair, that happens during a pandemic or not. And from what I have heard which could be totally wrong, and not to make this political, but their "universal" healthcare doesn't even work on a good day.

Regardless of universal healthcare or not, the world's healthcare systems need fixing.

Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other.

Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it.
Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.

Nelek17-Mar-20 2:01

17-Mar-20 2:01

ZurdoDev wrote:
And from what I have heard which could be totally wrong, and not to make this political, but their "universal" healthcare doesn't even work on a good day.

The US system only works if you can pay it. And you have a lot of people who can't pay it (or at least that's the image given in many, many, many films, books and so on)

M.D.V.

ZurdoDev17-Mar-20 2:04

17-Mar-20 2:04

Nelek wrote:
The US system only works if you can pay it.

First off, the US system does not work. It is a scam and a ripoff of the American people. But that's another topic for when the soapbox comes back. Wink | ;)

But no, that statement is not entirely correct. Hospitals cannot turn people away for not being able to pay. Of course, the hospital will likely sue them later if they can but they cannot deny treatment.

Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other.

Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it.
Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.

Nelek17-Mar-20 2:09

17-Mar-20 2:09

ZurdoDev wrote:
But no, that statement is not entirely correct.

Then I stand corrected.

M.D.V.

ZurdoDev17-Mar-20 2:13

17-Mar-20 2:13

Nelek wrote:
Then I stand corrected.

You should sit. Save your strength.

On a side note, have you ever tried the standing desks? I know some people that love them. I can't imagine trying to stand and work all day. Seems crazy to me.

Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other.

Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it.
Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.

Nelek17-Mar-20 2:32

17-Mar-20 2:32

Yes. I have one. I mostly sit, but from time to time I stand for a while to change my body gesture and / or if I am a bit sleepy after lunch, standing makes it easier for me to keep awake and concentrate a bit better until the "lunch-deep" is gone.

M.D.V.

Nelek17-Mar-20 2:14

17-Mar-20 2:14

ZurdoDev wrote:
To be fair, that happens during a pandemic or not.

Not at that scale... this is literally being...
Dump this 80+ years old patient because over there the 60+ years patient need it too and he might live 15 years more than this guy.

Happening more times a day. That is not normal state, not even in that "crappy universal healthcare" you tell.

M.D.V.

ZurdoDev17-Mar-20 2:15

17-Mar-20 2:15

Nelek wrote:
Not at that scale.

Agreed.

But it's all about survival of the fittest, right?

Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other.

Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it.
Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.

Nelek17-Mar-20 2:28

17-Mar-20 2:28

The Lounge[^]
Already told so a couple of times.

M.D.V.

CPallini17-Mar-20 3:07

CPallini

17-Mar-20 3:07

Quote:
To be fair, that happens during a pandemic or not.

Not at this rate. And rate matters.

Quote:
but their "universal" healthcare doesn't even work on a good day

Our healthcare is under pressure even on a good day, that's true.
But, in my experience, it is of quite good quality. And, in my opinion, 'universality' is really appreciable in a healthcare system.

ZurdoDev17-Mar-20 3:16

17-Mar-20 3:16

CPallini wrote:
'universality' is really appreciable in a healthcare system.

There just doesn't seem to be any good way of doing it. For example, why should I have to pay for your healthcare when you don't take care of yourself. That's not fair. But I also should not be turned away when I get in a car accident and my head is bleeding all over the place.

The only way I can see it working is if normal everyday health related issued are NOT covered and accidental when you weren't doing something stupid issues are covered. Of course that could never be defined and could never work. I just don't see how any plan can ever work correctly.

Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other.

Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it.
Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.

CPallini17-Mar-20 3:36

CPallini

17-Mar-20 3:36

Quote:
There just doesn't seem to be any good way of doing it

I am confident there are better ways of doing it. The system is far from being perfect. Anyway, I am glad here we have it.

Quote:
why should I have to pay for your healthcare when you don't take care of yourself. That's not fair.

True.

Quote:
But I also should not be turned away when I get in a car accident and my head is bleeding all over the place.

True as well, and much more important, in my opinion (might be I'm biased, they promptly saved my life after a bike accident Big Grin | :-D

Nelek17-Mar-20 2:00