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Hello everyone ! Need quite a bit of advice. Please do understand that I am not whining or bragging at any point. Basically I am at rock bottom. I live in the UK and moved to a small town to raise my baby but partner went mental and took him away and the courts are months away due to the pandemic. It has been extremely hard. But that isnt my main point. All this time I have been doing small manual labour jobs that barely take me from one month to the other. Since all the stuff happened, I have quite a bit of free time on my hands. I am trying really hard to cope but my nearest family or friends are thousands of miles away. Anyways , sorry back to the point. I grew up doing really well at school. The kind of kid to only study exam night and ace it. Did a BA in Computing and wanted to finish my MSc in Computer Games Architecture but my mental health got in the way and I could never finish it. Ever since it has been one exploiting job after another...
So, I want to start coding or programming OR anything else you guys could advise me on.My relationship with coding is a bit tricky. I have a weird habit that when I get into something I dont know enough about, it seems TERRIFYING. My mind asks whats this symbol, or this character or this line, or this and that. But I believe if I put in hard work, I might actually be good at it. I have never put in hard work in anything due to having a chronic problem with procrastination. Anyways, what I really mean to ask is, how hard is programming or it would be for someone like me ? What should I get into ? I love the idea of creating games and have a rough idea for a retro style RPG that I always think about. What should I go with ? C# and maybe a game engine like Unity ? Or should I go into something different like Photoshop or video editting or web development ? I cant make my mind because I am really not myself. But I know I want to have a decent job, I have wasted the good years of my life but I can always fix what's to come. I am still going to continue doing a full time job but I should have free time here and there, could squeeze in 3 or so hours a day. I can sleep less, 5-6 hours is enough.
So guys, sorry for the long read but I am really lost. I want to find something to do and put my talent to it and make something out of myself. Thank you ! Please dont be mean and if someone wants to PM, sure! 
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Quote: how hard is programming
Quote: how hard ... it would be for someone like me ?
We can't say: it depends on how your mind works. For me, I find it pretty easy, but I've been doing this for a very long time, so it's all "unconscious competence" for me, where you are sitting pretty much at "unconscious incompetence" - which isn't an insult, it's "trainer speak" for "not knowing how little you know", where mine is "not having to think about how to do it"*. And a "decent job" (by which you probably mean "well paid and indoors in the warm with no heavy lifting" (this is what attracteed me to the field in the first place, I must admit) takes competence: without a reasonable amount of competence (which is measured by most companies in terms of experience) you can't get anything but entry level jobs (and there are a lot of people with pieces of paper saying "I can do it" applying for them as well). Which you will be unsurprised to hear aren't interesting or well paid.
You can do it: but you need to get solid experience and knowledge of the language first and formost, and the framework second.
Photoshop isn't a job: it's an application used in many jobs, and which requires good knowledge as well and a creative flair to use properly. Not sure anyone can be taught that bit! similar problems with video editing, and web dev needs good software, together with creative flair (and a very thick skin).
I'm not trying to discourage you, but ... procrastination and 3 hours a day are not a good starting point, nor are games. Games these days are constructed by massive teams in a multitude of disciplines, and unless you are writing pretty simple Android or iOS games (in which case you probably need to learn Java or Objective C) you don't stand much chance of making much. Even with mobile games, there isn't that much profit to go around.
Good luck - I really hope you do well, whatever you decide to do.
* there are four stages of training:
1) unconscious incompetence: you don't know how to do it, and don't know that you don't know how to do it
2) conscious incompetence: you know how little you know and can do
3) conscious competence: you know you can do it
4) unconscious competence: you now longer have to think about how you do it
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony
"Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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Nice point with the 4 stages... didn't know about it.
M.D.V. 
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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I was sent on a one day "Introduction to Training" training course a couple of decades ago, and that was part of it - but the company decided that it was too expensive for me to go on the whole course though. Pity, it could have been useful.
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony
"Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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I did a course on PM and another one in Communication skills, from the PM course I only took 2 or 3 things as useful, the rest was... well common sense (at least for me, but I know it is something not usually common).
The one on communication skills was really good and taught me really useful things, but it is the hardest one to get incorporated in oneself.
M.D.V.
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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There's also a stage of a form of overconfidence where you know a good amount about the subject, but not yet know how little that "good amount" actually is. Right after that phase you start asking yourself those "but what if ...?" questions. It's then that the subject matter really starts to sink in
(Could of course be part of one of those stage )
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You've really got a double whammy there with both being scared of what you don't know, and uninterested in getting the ball rolling. For me, before getting a formal education in CS, any attempt at learning to program was hindered by my rushing the process. That lead to getting discouraged, becoming frustrated, and losing interest; a vicious cycle that repeated several times. I loved the idea of coding, but didn't love learning to code (at least back then.)
Now, I'm going to take a stab and say that maybe you're in that position, but it's only a guess. Overcoming the procrastination component is no easy feat imo. What worked for me was to just start with a small amount of dedicated time. Give yourself a half hour with no distractions to just focus. No nonsense, no excuses, just a half hour of your day. It might even help to make it scheduled. Scheduling keeps me focused on things that are easy to procrastinate on, like weight-lifting and hobby projects.
As for what to learn specifically, you'll really not go wrong with something like C# and Visual Studio. There's tons of support, tutorials, and places to start, though I would focus on non-game related content to start. Gaming is a different beast, but when you feel comfortable, C# knowledge transfers to the gaming world in game engines like Unity.
Finally, don't convince yourself you're "terrified" or a habitual "procrastinator." Talk to yourself in positive ways.
Good luck
modified 18-Aug-20 15:41pm.
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Thank you Kris, that was what I needed to hear. Unlike the other reply, I am not looking to replace the head of a studio or make 3 million in 3 months. I just want to start something because everything else seems shattered, EVEN if I get nowhere. Thanks again 
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I am a specialist in procrastination.
I was a very intelligent kid in a difficult time and got very lazy because I had no need to make an effort. Homework was mostly done "on the fly" when getting asked, pissing the teachers off that knew I hadn't done it at home.
So... what Kris said about scheduling and starting with half an hour in the message above... Oh, yes! Do it by all means. It helps a lot.
But I would add, that half an hour not only as the start, keep it for a good while until you get a deep routine with it, then and only then start to increase slowly. If you do it before, you might get a couple of overdosis and destroy the advances you have done until that point. Is the same as going to the gym, if you start with 30 Kg, you get used to it and then you go to 100 Kg at once, you will harm yourself.
Another thing I would add, although at the beginning is very difficult to know what will do it, try to do things that can have a fun component specially for you. I.e. I am a bit perfectionist and at the moment I try to do things with the target of being fast, so I test and compare some different approaches to reach the desired functionality and then I check which one is faster. This way of testing is something "funny" for me and doing them I discovered some interesting things that changed a bit my way of coding.
I agree that a very good point to start is C# as it is if not the most, one of the most versatile languages. But if you already have some old knowledge (as I understood from your explanation) I would try to refresh it too. C++ is not that dead, no matter how many people try to bury it.
Today there are A HUGE LOT of different programming areas, so it is easy to lose focus. Be careful with that. But don't overfocus ONLY in C#, be conscient about what is in your peripheric vision and explore a bit, just a bit, enough to help you in what you are learning that moment and to see if it could be something that would interest you and be worth to get back to it in another moment. It is a very difficult equilibrium, but is worth trying.
If you decide to continue with it... see you around. This is a very good place to hang over with other professionals and keep you informed.
If you don't... no matter what you decide. Best of luck.![Rose | [Rose]](https://www.codeproject.com/script/Forums/Images/rose.gif)
M.D.V.
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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You're not hungry enough or not that into "programming", regardless of the degree. Find something to like.
It was only in wine that he laid down no limit for himself, but he did not allow himself to be confused by it.
― Confucian Analects: Rules of Confucius about his food
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tl;dr
You've already lost.
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Member 14917288 wrote: The kind of kid to only study exam night and ace it.
Member 14917288 wrote: I have never put in hard work in anything due to having a chronic problem with procrastination
What you're saying I'm reading is that you're fortunate enough to have a talent for things, but you've never had to put in the work to achieve them. And it sounds to me like you're now paying the price, because until now you've never had to hunker down and work hard at something.
As someone who's sacrificed a lot to focus on his career, I'll be polite by saying you have the smarts to figure it out. Now do the work to make it happen.
Any further comment from me, I'm sure, would only come across as insensitive.
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fyi: I was,formerly, a long time ago, a board-certified psychotherapist.
From what I read in what you say, you are:
Undergoing a traumatic disruption of a primary relationship, and separation from your child. This involves the courts. I believe you are grieving.
You are a long way from home (your country of birth ?; your original culture?). While you don't specifically say you are socially isolated, or without face-to-face contact with people you can "trust to be yourself" with, I can't help but infer you may be isolated.
In short, imho, you are in a crisis, and I believe your stress levels are very high. Typical side-effects of stress, suffering, grief, often affect your ability to concentrate, your motivation to make any life-style changes. While I can't speak about you possible level of depression without much more information, I am sure you struggle with some form of depression.
Isolation, unfortunately, is usually an insidious "amplifier" of negative thoughts, obsessional thinking or behaving, and morbid guilt.
If it feels okay to you, I suggest you enter into some form of therapy: having someone to talk to who is "outside" your personal context can be very helpful.
Second, I suggest that to the extent possible you focus on personal health, exercise, diet. To quote Dr. Andrew Weill: Quote: We’ve long known that regular aerobic exercise is the best method for immediate, symptomatic treatment of depression. Numerous well-designed studies have demonstrated the efficacy of a daily workout for improving emotional health and boosting self-confidence. I recommend 30 minute of continuous activity, at least five days a week for best results. Although the new findings suggest that you don’t have to exercise that often to help prevent depression, getting 30 minutes a day will help protect your physical health as well as your mental health.
[^]
Your comments that indicate you believe procrastination and fear of being mentally overwhelmed ... unable to focus ... are parts of your character, I see as side-effects of repetitive patterns of negative self-talk. Modern therapies like CBT [^] show reliable results in re-framing cognitive style ... more quickly than other older analytic forms of therapy.
Everything I say here is "reading tea leaves," based on scant information. I hope you find something useful in it !
take care, Bill
«One day it will have to be officially admitted that what we have christened reality is an even greater illusion than the world of dreams.» Salvador Dali
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What a fantastic response!
So much better than what I wrote.
I can attest to CBT being excellent and personally have just taken ownership of an allotment.
Working on the allotment has perhaps been one of my happiest experiences in the past 15 years.
Exercise and getting outside definitely help.
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
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This is great advice.
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Part way into her post, my immediate thought was depression, and I was going to recommend therapy, or at least self help if the means to pay for therapy are not available. Your answer is far more complete than mine.
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First you need to work on your procrastination.
Sure we all procrastinate in different ways but I am not going to be able to offer you reliable advice on what career path to set for yourself. That is something you need to do.
My short answer is - pick something you enjoy and that has commercial value, stick at it through thick and thin, don't give up and you basically have yourself a career as a software developer.
If you are not doing at least 4 hours a day in your spare time, software development is probably not for you.
One of the most important qualities in software development is not giving up when things get tough, because modern day software development is so much more intricate and frustrating than it was back in 1992 when I graduated.
I wish you the best of luck.
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
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Being smarter than your peers has it's downside. Breezing through school with zero effort encourages a lack of discipline, which can come back to bite you later in life. I hit my 'brick wall' half way through A-Levels. My school explained that I wasn't making best use of my time - i.e. they asked me to leave! I'll spare you the life history, but I spent 4 years working in a factory before landing myself on a TOPS Computer Programming course and discovering that it was something I loved and had a knack for.
The course I took, taught Basic and COBOL (this was a long time ago!) and this worked really well:
- Basic introduced the concepts of programming, without needing to learn complex grammar/syntax. And delivered quick results.
- COBOL introduced the more formal aspects of programming. Which is necessary if you are hoping to do it in the real world.
I'm not suggesting you should learn either of the above. But what, I think, you should do is start with a very easy language, (and I don't count C# as one), which provides very few barriers to getting a result. If you are getting quick/easy results, you are more likely to persist. You will also, quickly discover, if you have the knack/have caught the bug.
I will defer to younger loungers to suggest a first programming language, as I suspect things have moved on in the last 40 years. If pushed I would go with PHP or Python. And if you are looking for free online courses, I have found CodeCademy is a good option:
Codecademy[^]
Good luck.
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Programming is simple. Keep it that way.
Take a look at the K&R C and consider[^] how simple it was.
But, everyone makes it complicated.
Here's the first program from that book:
#include <stdio.h>
main()
{
printf("hello, world\n");
}
Learn what each line means and you understand programming.
But, it's even easier now.
1. Open a browser.
2. Press F12
3. you should see the dev console
4. Type console.log("hello, world"); and press <enter>
You're programming. Now, just keep adding to that and see what you get.
It's really not complicated. You can learn, one line at a time and when you put a bunch of lines together you may have something. Celebrate what you can do, not what you can't.
modified 19-Aug-20 10:05am.
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Bills advice on exercise is spot on. It will help clear your mind, ease your depression. Many here have good advice.
Find what makes you happy, don't let your mind dwell on your miseries, it won't change things.
Your life largely is a product of your thoughts and the actions they bring. Miserable thoughts bring more misery, happy/optimistic thoughts bring good things. See yourself in a new light with some determined focus. Don't believe everything your mind is telling you. It is often wrong. Be a critical observer of your thoughts. Look to your good future. Believe in yourself, in your capacity to forge a life you want. Take action.
It is difficult to change your world view but worth the effort.
A favorite quote of mine is from Dr. Wayne Dyer,
"When you change the way you look at things, the things you look at change."
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The Rite of Teletubbies
Caveat Emptor.
"Progress doesn't come from early risers – progress is made by lazy men looking for easier ways to do things." Lazarus Long
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Everything the religious right claimed about them is true! Homosexual demon spawn indoctrinating our children while still in the cradle.
Evil pagan rituals and than final joyful jump back down a pit to return to hell !
Save us Barney[^], Save us !
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
modified 18-Aug-20 12:08pm.
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You are weird. 
Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other.
Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it.
Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
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